Preview Mode Links will not work in preview mode

Love the Wheel of Time?

Hate the Wheel of Time?


Join Jenn & Jess every week us for chapter synapsass, discussion, and plenty of real talk about this epic fantasy series.

[TRANSCRIPT] Ep. 37 - The Great Hunt: Ch. 18 & 19

Jul 10, 2019

Jess 0:34
Okay, are you ready?

Jenn 0:35
I'm ready.

Jess 0:37
I'm not ready. Hold on. I didn't pour my shot.

Jenn 0:39
False alarm!

Jess 0:40
I only poured my drink Okay, are you ready?

Jenn 0:43
I'm ready now.

Both 0:48 freedom candy!

Both 1:00
[They take shots]

Jess 1:02

Jenn 1:03

Jess 1:04
How are you?

Jenn 1:06
Pretty good.

Jess 1:07
Good. Hello everyone, and welcome to the White Tower. I'm Jess, your Amyrlin Seat.

Jenn 1:14
And I'm Jen, your Keeper of the Chronicles.

Jess 1:17
She just made a little heart with her hands, very cute. Uh, how are you today?

Jenn 1:24
I'm doing good. No more Fourth of July fireworks. Heeeeey, they are done. Get the fuck out of here.

Jess 1:33
Get the fuck out of here. There were idiots all over - ooh, I should close my door, Rich is yelling at soccer.

Jenn 1:39
I heard him.

Jess 1:43
Sorry about my husband.

Jenn 1:44
I love it.

Jess 1:47
I'm gonna fuckin' leave it.

Jenn 1:49

Jess 1:53
Yeah, there were a bunch of idiots in our neighborhood that were fucking around with fireworks and I was just like, you know, could you not? Like we were - Rich and I were both really on edge a bout it. And like getting cranky.

Jenn 2:08
How are your dogs, how are your babies? Over it?

Jess 2:11
Zoey could give a fuck.

Jenn 2:13

Jess 2:13
She's like, whatever. However, Simon was...he didn't love it. But he wasn't super clingy. So.

Jenn 2:23
I didn't see any fireworks. Well, no, I walked, I was like jogging. And then right at the inception of darkness is when I saw a few going off. But that was about that was my level of patriotism this year. So...

Jess 2:36
Uh, really quickly...

Jenn 2:38
Flying the freedom flag being 10, my patriotism was like a negative 20 this year.

Jess 2:43
Mine was probably around a negative 20, negative 30. I guess, I'm not I'm not feeling it. I'm over it. I'm over you, America. But, uh...shit. Oh, inception of darkness. You said that. That's our metal cover band.

Jenn 3:02

Jess 3:02
Inception of Darkness

Jenn 3:03
Is it?

Jess 3:04
We're going to do a heavy - you and I are going to have a heavy metal cover band.

Jenn 3:07

Jenn 3:08
It's going to be called Inception of Darkness. I've decided. It's totally fake though.

Jenn 3:12
It's all - all of it is going to be talking about having sex with the Virgin Mary. But it's like an anti-sex with the Virgin Mary, where you give birth to the Antichrist. Inception of Darkness.

Jess 3:24
Oh my god.

Jenn 3:26
Why do I come up with this shit?

Jess 3:28
I don't know. But your brain is fucking beautiful. And I can't even stand it. It's so good.

Jenn 3:34
We're gonna talk about popping Virgin Mary's cherry. I appreciate having the podcast. We are now completely off the air because I said this thing.

Jess 3:49
So it's been fun. We made it about halfway through the second book.

Jenn 3:52
It's been fun. I talked out my ass too much.

Jess 3:55
Goodbye forever.

Jenn 3:56
We enjoyed the ride.

Jess 4:03
Jesus Christ. That's some good shit right there.

Jenn 4:05
That's what I think about what you say Inception of Darkness, I'm like, the birth of the Antichrist or the conception of it.

Jess 4:14
Which...your mind is beautiful.

Jenn 4:16

Jess 4:16
It's beautiful, beautiful, dangerous jungle. And I'm so happy that you let me venture into it from time to time.

Jenn 4:25
I just I keep it real an right off the cuff.

Jenn 4:30
You keep it so real.

Jenn 4:31
Here's the bullshit that I'm going to say now.

Jess 4:39
Oh, God, so yeah.

Jenn 4:45
How's your weather bullshit?

Jess 4:46
Oh, our weather bullshit. It's been really hot. But today was actually super nice. It was in the 70s, no humidity. A little bit of a breeze. It was a very pleasant. Very very pleasant. Yeah, it was nice. I don't know if it's going to last but we'll see. Let me check the What the Forecast thing. How about your weather bullshit?

Jenn 5:16
Once again, this is a throwback thank you to Satanus from the - kind of, kind of goes with what I was talking about earlier - from the WoT Spoilers Discord for introducing us to the app. What the Fuck, What the Forecast, What the Fuck Forecast or whatever. Best weather app. Thank you for that. So throw a shout out to the WoT Spoilers discord and Satanus .

Jess 5:44
Yep. Oh man. Yeah. dew point. 59. That's beautiful. I love to see that shit. Yeah, it looks like the next week is going to be pretty nice. The hottest it's going to get it 79 degrees through Friday night

Jenn 5:59
That's cool for us down here.

Jess 6:01
Yeah, at night is going to get down to the 60s. Which, that's sleepin' weather.

Jenn 6:07
I randomly feel like being an asshole when I get my car and take a snapshot of what the temp degree is outside. Just like tweeting it or tagging you. And it's like the other day it was like 112 degrees. I'm like that's admirable.

Jess 6:23
That is admirable. And you were outside in it. The fuck is wrong with you?

Jenn 6:27
Yeah. I will tell you the boobs sweat. It's real.

Jess 6:32
Yeah, the boob sweat is fuckin' real. It's not good. It's not good. Yeah, actually, somebody on Twitter asked at one point, just sort of academically, like, why do we wear bras? Like, why do we feel we have to do that? And I'm like, okay...

Jenn 6:52
I have to wear a bra.

Jess 6:54
I mean, it's like, it's a coverage thing. First of all. Second of all, like, this probably isn't a problem for women with small breasts. But for those of us who do not have small breasts, just the general like, movement.

Jenn 7:09

Jess 7:10
Not comfortable.

Jenn 7:11

Jess 7:12
Awkward. It makes me self conscious

Jenn 7:14
Hits your arm.

Jess 7:15
Yeah, hits your arm and like you can see like, yeah, your nipples through your shirt and shit. Like, no, I'm not about that life. And then the boobs wet is untenable.

Jenn 7:26
Yeah, it's very untenable.

Jess 7:28
It's not It's not like it's bad. It's bad shit.

Jenn 7:32
I like my puppies lifted. Thank you.

Jess 7:33
Gotta lift them. And the thing is, is that like, ultimately, when they're lifted and supported, clothes just look better.

Jenn 7:40
clothes look way better. And here's my thing. Here's my thing. And correct me if I'm wrong. Nipple chafing. Those that don't wear bras.

Jess 7:51
That's a thing. It's a real thing, like...

Jenn 7:53
Because if you're wearing a bra, the nipples are like, in the stationary pad.

Jess 7:59
They're not moving.

Jenn 8:00
They're not, they're not being rubbed up against the same spot no matter how you twist and turn.

Jess 8:07

Jenn 8:08
With, imagine, like, being on a boat with no bra and you're, and you're going at a pretty good speed. You got a couple knots, whatever the nautical term is. Just the - I am no, I am no Bayle Doman here. So I'm on the boat and I'm going fast. And I don't have a bra on and it's just the nipple-age. And a big baggy t shirt. fluttering. You know what I'm talking about?

Jess 8:41
Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about and it's not, it's untenable.

Jenn 8:46
So I don't-

Jess 8:47
It's quality of life issue.

Jenn 8:48
Guys have nipple chafe. That's literally their life.

Jess 8:51
Yeah. It's like put on some pasties or something. You don't have to don't have to live like that, is the point. Shit, put band aids on it like, you don't have to live with the chafing on your nips.

Jenn 9:04
How do you deal with that? And

Jenn 9:07
I have a really big thing where if I sit down to eat? I can't have like, exposed boob.

Jenn 9:15
No matter what, like, even if I just came out of the shower, and I don't feel like putting on clothes. We all know what that's like. Okay, fresh out of the shower. You don't work.

Jess 9:22
We've all laid around in bed naked after a shower dicking around on our phones for 45 minutes.

Jenn 9:27
Okay, so when you're doing that, and it's a natural human reaction. Sometimes you want to eat something. Okay, because you feel like me and you take like a two hour getting ready situation. You're fucking hungry because you need some sustenance.

Jess 9:43

Jenn 9:43
I still got it. Like put a towel or blanket around myself there for some reason. I can't like just have exposed while I eat. I'm weird like that. I don't know.

Jess 9:54
That's fine. I mean, I will. i don't i don't i don't care about that. My house pretty much anything goes, but...

Jenn 10:03
Anyway, what are we talking about?

Jess 10:05
We're talking about The Wheel of Time. Actually. The epic fantasy series The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, perhaps you've heard of it.

Jenn 10:12

Jess 10:14
There's a lot of nipple talk.

Jenn 10:17
It's true, though.

Jess 10:19
Yeah, I mean, it's true. And it's a struggle that everyone with nipples has.

Jenn 10:23
Every one with nipples, as opposed to those that don't have any. S

Jess 10:29
Some people don't.

Jenn 10:30
Are you serious?

Jenn 10:31
People who've had mastectomies.

Jenn 10:33
Oh, yes, that's true. I'm sorry. Yeah, that was completely insensitive me. I'm sorry.

Jess 10:39
It's not necessarily the first thing you think of. You're not being insensitive.

Jenn 10:41
I apologize. Anyway.

Jess 10:45
You're good. You're good. So um, should we get into the synapsass-ese?

Jenn 10:51

Jess 10:53
All right. I will get into my synapsass this evening. I will be synapsassizing Chapter 18 of The Great Hunt. To the White Tower. Whoo. Lights up on Egwene, hanging out on the deck of the River Queen, hauling ass down the Erinin. The sky is dark with clouds, the wind is blowing like crazy, and the river is sloshing all over. The sailors are all really uncomfortable with the whole situation and they're talking shit under their breath. Egwene heads down to the cabin she shares with Nynaeve who was seasick and cranky as fuck about it. She says that they're supposed to reach Tar Valon that day and that she'll never set foot on a boat again - Nynaeve says that, not Egwene - and Egwene's like "I'm worried about Rand" and Nynaeve says I'm worried about all their dumb asses. Did you have another dream last night? And Egwene is shit keeping stuff from Nynaeve. So she's like, "Yeah, it was like the others but also kind of different. Rand's ass is in danger. The danger is getting worse. He's going to do something..." and then she can trails off and Nynaeve's like "Channeling?" Egwene looks around instinctively even though they're alone with the door closed. She doesn't want anybody eavesdropping and who knows what Aes Sedai are capable of. She's not going to risk leaking Rand's dirty little secret. She's like "Maybe, I don't know what to do." Nynaeve asked if anyone has gotten any more info out of Anaiya. She pointedly leaves off the "Sedai" honorific per usual. And Egwene's like "'The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, there's nothing we can do until we know more, he's far away, I'll test you when we get to the tower.' I know she knows something about it but she won't tell me fuck all." Egwene confirms that Ba'alzamon was in her dream and he laughed at her and was generally a dick. Nynaeve asked if she's sure it's related to the other dreams because sometimes a dream was just a dream and Egwene's like "Fuck sake, you sound like Anaiya Sedai," and Nynaeve's all about to holler about her or holler at her when somebody knocks on the door and walks in. Lo and behold it's Siuan. She's on her own which is unusual. She doesn't generally leave the cabin she's staying in on the boat and when she does Leane comes with her. Siuan's like "Everybody cool, nommin' your food, temper's good?" And Nynaeve is like "My temper is just fine thanks," and Egwene's like "We are honored mother." Siuan's was like "Whatever, shut up. Being on the water is rad, but you get bored after a while. So I'm going to give you your lesson today." She sits on Egwene's bed and Egwene follows suit and Nynaeve makes like she's going to leave and Siuan's like, "Sit your ass down." And she does, at least in part because she's nauseous. Siuan's like "Folks are talking about your temper and how it might not hurt to make you a Novice for a while to get your attitude in check. But if you're really as strong as everybody says, you deserve to be Accepted. You'll learn plenty when you get there." And Nynaeve's like, "I'd rather a Warder taught me how to use a sword. I totally have somebody I'd like to stab." And Egwene's like what the fuck because she's not sure if she means Siuan or Lan. Siuan is like, "Swords ain't shit." She makes a sword out of air and then turns it into a paring knife and explains that they'll need to learn when to use the Power and when it's better to do shit like an normie. Using the One Power too often will make-

Jenn 13:35
Like an normie. Like a muggle.

Jess 13:36
Like a fuckin' muggle. Like a fucking loser who can't channel. Using the One Power too often will make you like it too much, which will make it so much easier to use too much and burn yourself out. Nynaeve's like, "Can we at least learn something useful? All this 'stir the air, light the candle' shit is stupid and Siuan's like "Okay, cool. Here's something useful that I would do if I were dealing with a dude with a sword. Suddenly Egwene and Nynaeve can't move anything but their heads and Nynaeve gets real pissed off. Siuan's totally chill like "Pretty cool, huh? It's just air. Big ol' muscle-y man's sword does him as much good as the hair on his chest," she says. Nynaeve's like, "Bitch, let me go," and Siuan's like "I can move him around too!" And she lifts Nynaeve up in the air and is like, "I wish I could use this to fly. It would be rad. Apparently they could fly in the Age of Legends. But they didn't do it like this because you can pick up anything you want with air except yourself." Nynaeve's like, "Bitch, I am not playing," and Siuan's like "Shit. I could even tip him upside down and spank his ass," when suddenly she gets slammed back against the wall and stays there. And Egwene's like "Fuck." Siuan's like, "Goddamn, they were right. They said you learn fast but you have to get mad to do anything. Truce?" and Nynaeve's like, "Fuck you, let me go." And then this look of loss comes over her face and Siuan's like, "Yeah, you still don't know shit. I just cut you off from the True Source. You can feel it, but you can't touch it. Once you're strong enough to be a full Aes Sedai, nobody will be able to do that to you. So do you want to learn or do you want to be an a sshole?" Nynaeve just gives her mad side eye and Siuan's like, "If you weren't so powerful I'd make you a Novice forever just for your attitude problem. But you'll get what you deserve." She drops Nynaeve back on the bed from height and Nynaeve's like "Ow, my ass." Siuan's like, "Okay, so if you're done being a shit head let's get to the lesson" and Egwene's like "Ummm," and Siuan's like, "Oh shit, sorry," and releases her from the bonds of Air. "Okay, Is everyone ready to learn?" Flash forward to the end of the lesson. Egwene is sweating balls and thinks that even the hardest of the hard asses who taught them so far were not shit compared to Siuan. She just dragged everything out of you and then went in and dragged out more, but she's excited because her progress is like really advanced and she's made, she makes a little flame bounce over her fingertips, even though she's not supposed to channel without a babysitter. Nynaeve predictably throws a temper tantrum when Siuan leaves and calls her all kinds of names and how she wants to give her nasty medicine and shit. And Egwene avoids eye contact and lets her rant. It's awkward because Nynaeve had kept her temper on a tight leash. And so the lesson didn't go well for her. Siuan did all kinds of shit to piss herr off, including making her drink something super nasty and Egwene knew that Nynaeve would not be happy that Egwene saw it. Nynaeve's like, "It's not your fault. But if you tell anybody I'll make you drink that nasty shit too." Egwene, knowing that Nynaeve remembers everything once she's seen it, is like "I ain't seen shit. But at least you're not seasick anymore." And Nynaeve's like, "I'm too fucking pissed and miserable to be seasick. I feel," and she says, quote, "I feel as if I've been dragged through a knot hole backward," which is an extremely compelling description.

Jenn 16:31
I like that too.

Jess 16:32
Yeah, that's very good. "And if that's what novice training is like, Fuck that shit." And Egwene thinks that if she had to go through what Nynaeve just had she wouldn't be able to stand it. The motion of the boat changes and they realized that they've reached Tar Valon, so they go up on the deck and gawk. The island is huge and bridges that looked like lace connected it to the mainland. The Shining Walls of Tar Valon are appropriately named as they glistened in the sun. On the west bank they see Lews Therin's Dick Mountain hey hey!

Jenn 16:57
Hey hey!

Jess 16:59
Which people insist on calling Dragonmount for whatever reason, and there's a little bit of smoke coming out the top. Egewene thinks about Rand when she sees it and continues to be worried. The ship docks at a huge circular wharf and the gangplank is put up as soon as Siuan and Leane get on deck. A delegation of shawled Aes Sedai meet her on the dock and all kinds of other shit is happening. It's very very busy. Nynaeve's like, "Looks like they've already forgotten us, nice," and they go down to get their shit. When they come back, all the Aes Sedai and soldiers and everybody are gone and they're like, "Well, fuck." Nynaeve asks one of the crew about their horses and he tells them that they'll be taken to the Tower and if they want to go to the Tower, they best hurry, because the Aes Sedai don't like it with the noobs are late. They disembark and head through a big redstone arch and then they stop and stare like slack jawed yokels. The buildings are all huge and they all complement each other like they're part of some bigger design. Some of them are so fanciful in design that they don't even look like buildings but they look like shells and waves and shit like that. There are tall towers around with bridges springing between them and The Tower is taller and wider than the rest, and shiny like the walls around the city. Suddenly someone behind them says, "Pretty as fuck, ain't it?" and they turn to see an Aes Sedai with green eyes and bright red hair and Egwene can't stop staring at it. The Aes Sedai goes on to explain that the city is Ogier built, it was built after the breaking. And Nynaeve's like "Yes, it's very nice. But we need to get to the Tower and nobody seems to give a fuck whether we get there or not." The Aes Sedai's like, "Oh yeah, they give lots of fucks. I came here to meet you but the Amyrlin held me up. I'm Sheriam, the Mistress of Novices." Nynaeve's like "I'm not going to be a Novice. I'm supposed to be Accepted." And Sheriam is like, "Bitch, I know, but Accepted can get their asses sent to me for punishment too. So keep your head on a swivel." She explains that Egwene and Nynaeve now make 40 Novices in the Tower. Of those only eight or nine will get raised to Accepted. It's hard work. But it has to be in order for them to be properly prepared for the pressure of being an Aes Sedai. Some women break under the strain. And Egwene's like, "What the fuck?; And Nynaeive's like, "Do you really have to break her just to see how strong she is?" And Sheriam was like, "Oh, you mean what Siuan did to you on the boat? That shit is reserved for the first few weeks of being Accepted, just to weed out the ones who somehow made it but shouldn't have," Nynaeve's like "What the actual fuck?" Sheriam puts her arms around their shoulders and is like, "Let's boogie, ladies, the White Tower awaits." And thus endeth the synapsass.

Jenn 19:13
So the only thing I have to say because I was going to talk about how the fact that - I've liked the fact that Robert Jordan waited until book 2 chapter 18 to bring up the fact that Aes Sedai can't fly. Because I, for some reason, when I was reading this never considered it. But when they talked about needing to travel places and Moiraine needed to hurry them places and, you know, getting the horses speed and going through the Ways. I'm like, wait a minute, she's fucking magical. Can she fly? Like that never occurred to me until this chapter. Like I never thought, not knowing anything about this world and first picking it up from Adam, Being a common layman, I should have thought, Wait, she's magical. She can make shit appear. She can't fly or transport them? I like how he actually said okay, no, you can't fly. You could pick maybe somebody else up or lift things. But you try to lift yourself and you can't. But I heard the Age of Legends you could, which is maybe another lost thing they learned also. When Nynaeve was like oh, I think swords are useful. There's somebody I would like to stick with a sword, Egwene is thinking, is she talking about the Amyrlin Seat or Lan? She wasn't talking about either, she's talking about Moiraine right? There's nobody else that Nynaeve hates more in the world than Moiraine.

Jess 20:38
Well, you know what? I am I'm somewhat inclined to think that she means Lan because they are... Lan and Nynaeve's sort of relationship, not like romantic relationship, they're not together, but their interactions are fraught.

Jenn 21:01
Very. I like that word. Good job.

Jess 21:05
Thank you! I know words! Her, her interactions with Lan have been strained, to say the least. And you know, as much as... as much as she's pissed off at Moiraine, like, I feel like Nynaeve already has a plan for Moiraine, and that plan involves getting her revenge by learning how to be super good at using the Power. Whereas with Lan I think she'dead ass wants to stab him because he pisses her off so much. That's my interpretation.

Jenn 21:39
I like how you say how she already has a plan for Moiraine.

Jess 21:43
Yeah, like Moiraine is at the top of her hit list and she has got a whole entire plan.

Jenn 21:47
She's got like a Kill Bill situation.

Jess 21:50
Yeah, she does. Like she's got a whiteboard. Where she has like...

Jenn 21:55
It's like the one guy...

Jess 21:57
There's like a fucking flow chart for like different scenarios and shit. Like, yeah, Nynaeve knows how Moiraine's going to get fucked up.

Jenn 22:03
She knows the hour and how Moiraine will die.

Jess 22:08
The hour and the manner of her death.

Jenn 22:10
The hour and the manner of her death, put it in the obits. Okay, I actually, you know what? I concede your point, Jess. I like that. Um, I think it's a really good chapter, I think you learn a lot. Actually, this is an interesting chapter to me, when I went back and visited it to do the synapsass and read about it with you. There's not a lot of things, to use a Harry Potter term again, that Aes Sedai do to apparate things from thin air. Very, very rarely will you see an Aes Sedai using the power to which they make a thing out of thin air, like out of Air. It's, you don't hear about that a lot in these books. This is one of the few instances and the very first instance, I think, where you have Siuan as the Amyrlin make something out of Air and then make a knife and a sword. She says just from Air, but it's really cool to see her like make stuff and do stuff. It's like kind of a, it's kind of showing the reader what you can do. Also, I love my girl Nynaeve because she's sick in bed, she can't move. She's awful at being on a boat. So you have one of her first weaknesses that you see. And she's like, bitch, let me down to the Amyrlin Seat. Like she throws the Amyrlin Seat against the fucking wall. She physically lashes out at the Amyrlin Seat when she needs the Amyrlin Seat to allow her to become an Aes Sedai for her, like you said, plan for Moiraine. So she physically strikes the Amyrlin Seat with the power.

Jess 23:52
Well, and I think-

Jenn 23:54
I love that about her.

Jess 23:56
It was - it's so good. But one thing that I was thinking of is, we've seen demonstrated before that obviously, Nynaeve has a block. And we've already learned that most Wilders have one, because they are just not able to cope with sort of the reality of what it is that they're able to do. So they put up some kind of a mental block that makes it so that they can't really do it.

Jenn 24:24

Jess 24:24
Um, and, you know, it lines up with what Nynaeve has said in the past, like when she Healed Egwene that one time. She was angry that she couldn't fix it, she was angry that she couldn't figure out how to make it better, or whatever. And that's what made it so she was able to actually Heal her, Right. So we know that she has a lot of ability, we know that she has to be angry in order to access it. But we also know that she can't control it very well. So I would go so far as to say that Nynaeve was wishing that she could do the same thing to Siuan. And then once she was angry enough, and she was able to access the Source, it just sort of happened. Um, but also it's important to point out that Siuan did it on purpose. Because she, like Siuan wants to know how powerful is she really? What is she really capable of, you know, the Aes Sedai had been reporting back to her about what they've discovered about the girls and their talents and all that stuff. She wants to see for herself. So she does everything she can to make Nynaeve pissed off to get her to channel and sort of verified what everybody had been telling her. Which was. first of all, she's hella strong. Second of all, she only has to see somebody do it once and she can do it. Which is pretty cool. So uh yeah, it's a good thing that Siuan, like, was expecting that reaction because I can see where if she wasn't it could have gone poorly.

Jenn 26:05
It could have but also just as much as Siuan, like you're absolutely 100% correct, needed to see Nynaeve do that herself and get her pissed off to see what she was capable of, she also needed to show Nynaeve once she was in her strong anger, like all right, I'm ready to throw down self, like, okay, you're angry. You're strong, but I can still shield you.

Jess 26:30

Jenn 26:31
So there's, this is just reconfirming what you already wanted to do, you need to come to the White Tower. Because I, because I can shield your ass once you get to that angry point. So.

Jess 26:41
And I think it illustrated, like, that lack of control. You know, one of the things like what what Siuan had said was, once you're a full Aes Sedai, no other woman who can channel is going to be able to shield you. And the stronger you are, the more women it will take to hold a shield over you. So like, I think it's also ,it's also demonstrating not only Nynaeve's lack of knowledge, but also her lack of control. Because Nynaeve is smart enough that I bet if she...Nynaeve is smart enough, and she's fucking pissed, right? So I think, I don't know, I don't remember off the top of my head, where Nynaeve ranks in terms of strength compared to Siuan, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that if Nynaeve were able to control it, she would have been able to break that shield. I think she would have been able to figure it out. But she can't control it. So she's stuck.

Jenn 27:44

Jess 27:46
Channeling is so fucking interesting. I love it.

Jenn 27:48
It is very complex.

Jess 27:50
It is such a cool magic system.

Jenn 27:52
Yes, I love the fact that it's very, it's different than any other magic system we've heard about before. And we get to get a little bit into that in this chapter for the first time, like the meat and bones of what you can do, what you can learn, what you can't, that-

Jess 28:07
What other people can do to you.

Jenn 28:08
-kind of history of it, plus what you need to learn to be able to do this and that, I like that.

Jess 28:14
Another thing that we learned, I didn't go into a lot of detail about it. But you know, what we have learned is, there are not a lot of young women in the Tower at this point.

Jenn 28:25
Only 40 are Novices.

Jess 28:26
Only 40.

Jenn 28:27
And only out of that 40 only eight or nine will be raised to Accepted.

Jess 28:31
Mm hmm.

Jenn 28:33
Bro, that's not a lot of new Aes Sedai.

Jess 28:35
No, it's not, and then you have to think, okay, at least a few of those eight or nine are not going to pass the test to become Aes Seda. You know, that test is hardcore, like, not everybody makes it. And so, you know, it's I think this is a really good illustration of how it seems like the Tower might be a little bit kind of on the decline.

Jenn 29:03

Jess 29:04
You know, it's sort of like, in the sunset years, it's the decline of the Roman Empire. You know, they have this huge Tower and they only have 40 new women who are training right now. That's not very many, there have to be more women who can do that. Why aren't these women here? You know, so interesting questions raised there.

Jenn 29:22
Very cool. Yes. I'm glad that you went into that.

Jess 29:26
Mm hmm. So, and, we meet Sheriam Sedai.

Jenn 29:31
Sheriam Sedai. Sheriam, man, that is a puzzle. Um, I love her though.

Jess 29:40
I do, I liked Sheriam from the very beginning.

Jenn 29:43
I loved Sheriam from the beginning. I like how Egwene was, like, gawking at the fact, kind of like Rand when he first met Else Grinwell, and that whole family on the way to Caemlyn. Seeing a woman with blonde hair for the first time was like, such a shock to him. That way Egwene was like gawking at the fact there's a woman with red hair. She's seen Rand with red hair before that, obviously.

Jess 30:08
Well, and I think I think there are probably a few different things in play. Number one, I always was under the impression that Rand's hair was lighter. It wasn't like bright red. Yeah, it was either lighter like strawberry blonde, but I don't think that's right. Or maybe darker like an auburn so like a reddish brown whereas Sheriam's hair is like straight up red, like bitch is a ginger, like a real honest to god ginger. Like her hair is RED.

Jenn 30:39
like red-red, though, like fire though. But not like orange-red, like red.

Jess 30:46
Like a legitimate redhead and Egwene's never seen that before. So.

Jenn 30:51
Right. Right. That's kind of cool.

Jess 30:54
Plus, she has green eyes and I'm pretty sure that she's probably never seen anybody with green eyes either.

Jenn 30:58
Green eyes. Yeah. They described her as her plumpness cannot conceal her high cheekbones. And her like dainty way of doing things and like there's so much different about her that Egwene's like what the hell's going on-

Jess 31:14
Who is this amazing person?

Jenn 31:16
with your complexion and your hair and your eyes.

Jess 31:18
Oh my god, the hair. (sings) The hair!

Jenn 31:21
The hair. I love how you did that. Thank you. Yeah, that was for me. I love you.

Jess 31:25
It was, it was just for you.

Jenn 31:27
I love you.

Jess 31:28
I love you, too. So do you want to do your synapsass?

Jenn 31:32
I can do my synopsis. Uh, blah, blah, blah...Chapter 19, Underneath the Dagger. It sounds like a sexual position.

Jess 31:42
A little bit. Yeah.

Jenn 31:45
Rand tells himself, at night, still camped out on the mountain range known as Kinslayer's Sagger, that he is going to wait just one more day for the darkfriends to arrive, then go to Cairhien to take Selene home. They've been wasting time, camping out night after night, waiting at the spot that the darkfriends will eventually travel to with the dagger and the Horn. A la Fain retinue. Rand to grips Thom's flute and thinks of a time when he was sleeping out on the cold hard ground. Using the flute to earn his supper seems a lifetime ago. He shifts over and sees a figure bent over to check his saddlebags framed in the moonlight. It's Selene, and she's rooting through his shit. "What are you doing?" he asks.

Jess 32:33
Not cool, bitch.

Jenn 32:34
He takes his saddlbags, happy to see the Dragon banner is still rolled up tight and not fucked with. She makes up some excuse about wanting one of Rand's shirts. She's been traveling in the same white dress forever. And she wants a change of clothes. So he pulls out a white silk shirt and she turns around and starting to take off her dress and asks Rand to help her undo her buttons, the little tart! Seduction level 100. He's like uh stammering "We're not promised, it wouldn't be right." He turns around, he's such a virg. He turns around, listening to all sorts of rustlings and then turns back to see her in his shirt and nothing but his shirt. So he gets all dry throated. He talks about the hem of the shirt only going partway down her thighs. She's got the full leggies going on and it's all hot. And he turns around again, she starts pressing up against his back talking about Rand becoming the next Artur Hawkwing if he claims the Horn for himself, when Hurin comes up on them in the dark. Buzzkill. Rand sounds angry in answering Hurin when Hurin asks if everything's all right, because he heard noises. And Rand's, like, "Am I angry with Hurin or myself?" And he's thinking about how white Selene's legs are, which is very old school. Usually milky white thighs would make a dude think about her needing to see more sun.

Jess 34:11
It depends on the dude.

Jenn 34:13
It does. Hurin said he found a fire about three miles out, a small one like they were trying to keep hidden. Rand is immediately logical, saying that fire had to be Fain's campsite. FAin is the only person they know that is trying to keep hidden. Rand's first idea is to follow them in the morning and wait for Ingtar and the lances to show up and fight them. Because after all, it's just Rand and Hurin and Loial and Selene. They cannot take Trollocs and Fain with the dagger down themselves. Selene is being all dumb, like you're just going to let this Ingtar dude take all of the glory and finding the Horn for himself, when you could just take it right now. Rand is thinking, she wants the man who finds the Horn, that's all. She tells Rand to go down there and scout right now in the darkness to see how many Tollocs and darkfriends Fain has with him, and what their campsite looks like. Oh, and take Loial who she refers to as "alantin". Very old school because the alantin or Ogier have better eyesight than humans. Loial agrees with her that they should scout and he would go down to use his vision What do your elf eyes see, Legolas??

Jess 35:28
(Extreme laughter)

Jenn 35:34
I mean, where did that come from? What do your elf eyes see?? Anyhoo, Rand buckles on his sword and starts to be all fool crazy. Rand tells Hurin to guard Selene with his life, after which she laughs like "I can take care of myself." And Rand uses his Two Rivers woods tracking skills to sneak close and slow to the fire. Well there's still a good-

Jess 36:00
He rolls for stealth.

Jenn 36:02
Roll for initiative.

Jess 36:03
He fucking crits.

Both 36:05
(they talk over each other for a little bit about critical stealth rolls)

Jenn 36:10
A nat 20. While there's still a good ways out after all, they're covering a couple of miles. Rand asks Loial more about this "alantin" that Selene calls him. What does it mean? Loial says it's in the Old Tongue. It's short for a phrase actually, "tia avende alantin". It means Tree Brother or some such for short. He says is extremely formal, but from what Loial has heard of other humans in Cairhien, meaning what he's read about the humans in Cairhien, they're a very formal people. And Rand immediately thinks that a shepherd wouldn't fit in Cairhienin nobility. Uh, woolhead get your mind right.

Jess 36:51
Yeah, get your house in order bud.

Jenn 36:54
Rand feels saidin now. Now he recognizes what the call of saidin feels like, the draw of calling on the One Power, it beckons to him. He wants to reach out for it but is still struggling with it the closer to danger that Rand gets. Loial recognizes that Rand's voice sounds different all of a sudden and Rand is like "I'm good, blood, let's boogie." They get to the camp and the fire is out and they see Trollocs wrapped up sleeping on the ground. Rand sees the chest in the moonlight and the dagger on top of it, unsheathed, which strikes Rand as odd. Like why would Fain have the dagger just laying out in the open on top of the chest of the Horn of Valere? Then Loial quietly points out that a Trolloc scout is not 10 paces away. He does this silently covering, Rand's mouth, and most Rand's face, with an Ogier hand that indicates silence. The Trolloc goes back to lay down and sleep after a while of stillness from Rand and Loial. Tam had told Rand way back when that Trollocs were lazy when they weren't killing. Rand decides to throw every fuck to the wind. Every. Single. One.

Jess 38:08
Every single fuck is gone. He just dumps it out onto the fucking dirt.

Jenn 38:13
Pour one out for all the fucks.

Jess 38:14
(laughing hysterically)

Jenn 38:19
Okay, would he have done this thing If Selene hadn't literally planted the thought in his head back on the mountain with those pale legs shining? Who knows? But I'm going to vote with...hold on. I lost my place. Oh, no, hold on. Okay, I'm going to vote with, Rand needs to be a hero. He was already there. And Mat also needs the dagger or his buddy was going to die. And Rand hates Fain and wants to stick it to him. So Rand just gets on his belly and slithers to take the Horn of Valere and the dagger, right then and there. So Selene implanting the idea to get the Horn for himself, thereby taking all the honor associated forthwith, is completely out of the question to me. Like, dude would have done the fool thing and taken the Horn anyways, is how I feel. Because Mat still needs it and he was still there and he's still of the hero mindset because that's just who he is. I think. I think Selene helped, but I don't think he was, he would have gone back. Anyway.

Jess 39:30
I have thoughts on that. But we'll do that in the discussion.

Jenn 39:33
We'll do it in the discussion. Okay, through the void he slithers to the chest and has a moment of hesitation about grabbing that unsheathed dagger with his bare hands. But then the fool, the absolute madman touches the bare dagger anyway, and quickly sticks it in his belt. Even with the void around him, Rand feels that the dagger is pulling down on him, like a weight. Let me tell you about how much our boy does not think, Okay, dumbass. You have the dagger for your friend. Good job. Now, what are you going to do with the chest of the Horn of Valere that is difficult to open and way too heavy for a normal person to lift and carry besides? Fain had to have the Trollocs transported in between camps. How is Rand going to sneakily carry that thing two or three miles back up a mountain ridge to Selene and Hurin only after being in that camp. Like, does Rand think "how the fuck am I going to lift this bitch silently and quickly? Take it away?" Like, he can't even pick it up.

Jess 40:40
I thought that was why he brought Loial.

Jenn 40:43
But he didn't think about that until later. Like he, then he turns, like when he gets to it. He doesn't tell Loial to follow him. He just got his belly to the fucking Horn of Valere by himself.

Jess 40:54
Yeah, you're absolutely right. Like, he did not say like, "Okay, I'm gonna slither over here, you come with me." No, you're right.

Jenn 41:00
He just goes for it. So having a moment, he looks around for help and the fortunately finds Loial behind him. Quickly Rand pantomimes Loial lifting the chest and Loial does so. Let's all take a moment to appreciate how brave Loial is here. Without, without being asked, and it literally having nothing whatsoever to do with Loial's life. Loial was right behind Rand creeping in the middle of a Darkfriend camp full of Trollocs, just hang out with Rand and help protect Rand's dumb ass from getting eaten. Because at this point, Loial only thinks Rand has a fucking sword and Lan's two weeks worth of "how to get ripped" classes taken at Fal Dara, to protect Rand's ass. Again, no idea that Rand can channel at this point to protect them. Just two weeks of sword training bootcamp.

Jess 41:58
Two weeks of Lan's P90X.

Jess 42:01
Like, so if Ogier thought humans were hasty and rash to make dumb decisions, boy howdy, Loial found the wrong crew to attach himself to in order to cancel those stereotypes about humans. Rand, spur of the moment, sneaking into a camp full of Trollocs to steal the Horn of Valere and one of the most deadly things on the planet, that fucking cursed dagger, does not help the stereotype. Too ran- too rash, Rand.

Jess 42:27
Rand is the reason that stereotype exists.

Jess 42:29
BRO. Okay, Loial, it doesn't even affect his life and he's out there just on his own not even been asked, behind Rand in the middle of a Trolloc camp. He doesn't need to be there. That's no business of his. He's writing a book. That's why he's there, fuck off. Anyway, they get - it makes no sense. So thank you Loial for just doing that out of the goodness of your heart.

Jess 42:53
Loial's doing the needful. Loial does what needs to be done.

Jenn 42:56
So they begin to back out of the camp when of course Fain wakes up and start shouting that the dagger is gone, and he knows it's Al'Thor. He rouses the Trollocs, like "I can feel you out there Al'Thor, you took the dagger from me!" Just shouting out into the darkness. Fain can't see Rand, but he can feel him out there. Like, fuck the Horn of Valere. you took the dagger. So that is pretty serious shit. So Fain at this point, seems more angry about Rand taking the dagger than the Horn of Valere. So Trollocs start rearing up at them, and we get Jordan's writing of sword forms here. Randlaunches out with Cat Dances on the Wall for a sword maneuver and kills a Trolloc. He can feel Saidin but he can't let Loial see him using the Power. Plus he wants Loial out of there. After all the Ogier has both arms around that big ass chest and Loial cannot defend himself. So Ran'd all like, "Run, Loial, run!" as he holds off Saidin and start swinging his sword. So Rand literally says, out loud like a litany to himself, that it's been better to be dead than to draw Saidin. He fights for everything he's worth because he not only has to, when all the camp of Trollocs get up to surround him. He feels like he has to keep his mind preoccupied with the sword forms so that Rand doesn't draw Said. So feeling the Power through him floating in his little void, Rand starts massacring the whole Trolloc camp just with his sword. We go through all the forms, reading phrases like Hummingbird Kisses the Honey Rose, of course. Lizard in the Thorn Bush which, is a new one, and lots of good classics. There's headless bodies all around him suddenly, and and the moonlit distance we hear Loial going, "Come on, Rand, let's leave let's go let's get out of here". And we have a cool guy moment. A cool guy that's too cool to look at explosions. Rand is calmly, like he has all the time in the world, calmly wiping his sword off the Trolloc blood on the bodies of the Trollocs he just killed, and then sheaths his sword back in its holster. Like if he were at cowboy he would have blew the smoke rising off the barrel of his gun. I mean, top form. Just coolly kills all the Trollocs in like a few seconds. Just a lone bro and his sword, good workout. He gets back to his horse that he left outside of the camp and then tells Loial that he thinks he's going mad. Loial's like, Hopefully you'll wait to go insane when we get back to camp. And then Loial takes off running, out-pacing Rand's galloping horse. When they make it to camp, Selene's like "Oh you have it," unsurprised. She knew she knew he'd be stupid. Hurin goes to stand guard at the outcrop to make sure that no Trollocs have followed, but Rand's like no I'm pretty sure we weren't followed back to camp, I killed them all. But you go ahead and look, buddy. Rand sets the chest down. Neither he nor Hurin know how to open it but, Selene's like "Let me try." So she knows exactly what she's doing. She somehow knows how to open the chest for the Horn of Valere, pressing her hands in these little hidden spots until the top swings open. She goes to reach for it but the book writes it literally this way, quote, "As she stretched on tiptoed but a hand inside, Rand reached over her shoulder and lifted out the Horn of Valere." Unquote. Selene: REJECTED. Somehow, Rand used common sense with Selene, with all of her nattering on about the Horn incessantly, and just took it out when she tried to reach for it herself. How would this story be if she had taken hold of the Horn for herself first, I wonder. What would have went down differently.

Jess 46:40
That's a really good question.

Jenn 46:42
Rand is inspecting it, not paying her grabby hands any attention, just a plain gold horn. The silver script flowing around the bell, catching in the moonlight. "Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin." Selene isn't even looking at the Horn of Valere but she intones what the words say on it as Rand traces the script with his finger. She translates to what I'm going to call Common, for our D&D listeners. "The grave is no bar to my call." Then she says Rand'll be greater than Hawking ever was. Rand's like, "Okay about that. I'm tired of the rhetoric. I'm taking this to Sheinar, to Lord Agelmar, and he sets it back inside. She gets pretty pissed about that. Hurin steps back up to the camp to report that the little fire below is now raging, burning hard, but he agrees that they don't know where Rand went. The fire must be getting big in order for Fain to see where Rand and Loial went. Selene says that those Friends of the Dark - hmm, not Darkfriends? Friends of the Dark, interesting. Anyway, she says those Friends of the Dark won't stop until they get the Horn back. Anyway, they don't know where you're headed just yet. But before we go back to Shienar, how about taking a detour to Cairhien? It's not too far and you can take me back home. Don't you want to see Cairhien, Rand, to escort me safe and see my home? Rand's like okay. Then she's like, "you took something else from those Friends of the Dark. You mentioned a dagger." He takes out the bared blade of the dagger from Shadar Logoth and Selene, without being told first what it was, says immediately "Be careful. Don't let it cut you." Which a casual listener would take that she's concerned about the bared blade and Rand's hands, like you would any normal blade. But as we been knew that she shady as fuck, and knows more than she lets on.

Jess 48:43
We been knew.

Jenn 48:44
She's talking about the blade's powers here. Rand then explains how deadly the dagger is to Loial and Hurin and that it can kill you and it's essentially a matrix virus. Loial's like "Ah, so that's what what's been affecting Mat," and is all sad when Rand explains that he has to take it back to Mat so the Mat and the dirt can be one in order to then get Mat healed- in order to then get Mat healed from the dagger's taint. It's a complicated relationship. Selene wants Rand to forget about his friend. It's too dangerous to carry around, just throw the dagger down on the ground right then and there. Pretty telling about Selene, the audience at this point ain't supposed to like this bitch. Rand sets the dagger inside the Horn, just casually, and closes the lid. So that whoms- so that whomsoever touches the Horn of Valere has to come into contact with that dagger, too. He's like "Maybe the chest will shield us for a little while from the dagger." Selene, frustrated-

Jess 49:48
It's like it's a lead box with fucking uranium in it.

Jenn 49:52
Selene wants to go back to sleep. Maybe, I don't know, to steal the Horn after they all fall asleep. But Rand's like, "Nope. I'm saddling your horse. I want to be the fuck away. And she's like "You're so stubborn." Like she's known him a long time. The chapter ends with Fain making that bonfire being like "You will pay Al'Thor!" Thus endeth the chapter. Could you imagine if Selene got her hands on that that Horn first?

Jess 50:21
Can I just say like, I understand that Rand is naive. And you want to know what? Loial's naive too, you know? You know, he's basically a teenager himself in Ogier terms, and doesn't know shit from anything.

Jenn 50:39

Jess 50:40
But don't you think that she would be setting off alarm bells at this point? How does she know not to touch the dagger? How does she know how to open the fucking box? Like how does she know what the fucking shit says? Like there's so much many little things adding up to like, sirens going off like, something's not right here.

Jenn 51:07
Yeah, no...Which is why I had no problem in the previous episode just saying, calling out who she- I mean, you know? No, no reader at this point thinks she's a Cairhienen noble. They don't know, maybe not know exactly what she is, what I said maybe fair, but I still stand by it because there's no way you take her at face value. No matter what. Like no.

Jess 51:33
Yeah, no, there's, it''s...she knows too much. She's too pushy.

Jenn 51:41
She is.

Jess 51:42
Like, you know, last week I said that she wasn't even subtle. Like, she was trying and wasn't doing a very good job. Now she's not even trying anymore.

Jenn 51:52
No, she's not trying to like...

Jess 51:54
She might as well be like, "Oh, yeah, no, I'm one of the Forsaken. And I'm here to fuck you, literally and figuratively."

Jenn 52:03
Both. Yeah.

Jess 52:11
Now getting back to your question about if if Selene hadn't been egging him on about getting the Horn. I actually disagree with you.

Jenn 52:24
Cool. I like that. That's good. Let's go.

Jess 52:27
I don't think...I don't think that he would have gone down to get it the way that he did.

Jenn 52:32

Jenn 52:33
Because what he did was incredibly dangerous. And there really was no reason why it should have worked. Like, they got fucking lucky. So we've mentioned before that Rand is very practical. He thinks things through. And he does have some common sense and I feel like common sense would tell him "I should not sneak into a camp full of Trollocs and Darkfriends and a guy who literally his entire mission is to fucking kill me, in the dark, to get this thing. Like, we should follow him and like send somebody to go find out where Ingtar is and bring him back or something like that. Like I don't think he would have executed that plan, he would have come up with something else because what he did was fucking stupid. It was really fucking stupid and I really believe that the only reason he did it was because a pretty girl with bare legs told him that he should.

Jenn 53:44
I think he wouldn't- okay so I'll, I'll concede that he would never be there in that position looking at their camp if she didn't say go there and scout because again, he already stated his original intention was to sleep that night and then wait, and then follow them until they hooked up back again with Ingtar, and have Ingtar fight Fain in the Darkfriends, for getting the Horn of Valere back. So he would not have been down there slithering close to them, looking at the trees just with him and Loial by himself without her input. I agree with 100% there that's, that's without question. So part of it, I'll say I think is because of her. But I think once he got to that point, it was just like, Well, fuck it, I'm already being stupid.

Jess 54:32

Jenn 54:32
Because of her. But yeah, like it could go either way. I like that. Oh, no, I could see lots of your point. But I still think that once he saw the dagger there, it was over. Because he's like, Mat, he needs it. He's gonna die. And like you would...

Jess 54:50

Jess 54:52
Well, and the other thing, like Rand did not seem to react very much at all to Selene being like, Fuck the dagger, throw it away. Who gives a shit about your friend?

Jenn 55:04

Jess 55:05
That, like, if somebody said that to me, I have a life saving dagger in my hand for my best friend that I've known since I like before I could even remember, and some bitch walks up to me and is like, forget about your friend throw the dagger away. I'd be like, I know. You didn't fucking say that to me. And now we have a problem. The fuck out of here.

Jenn 55:27
Oh, yeah, I agree. You're absolutely right.

Jess 55:30
You're fucking baggage now, bitch. And I'm going to tie you to a tree and leave you here. And you can get out on your own because I'm done with you like,

Jenn 55:37

Jess 55:39
Uh-uh, not okay.

Jenn 55:41

Jess 55:44
So, yeah.

Jenn 55:45
I agree. That's a good point. Because you're right. I, I kind of thought that, but I never would have voiced that like you did. But you're so right. Like, why didn't he feel some sort of emotion about her saying that? Like, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I guess , like he's so logical. And I will give it to Rand, he still, you know, thinks about Egwene when she's there with her all white legged moon goddess self in front of him. He's like, oh, man, I don't deserve either her or Egwene. So he's still thinking of Egwene. It's not like, she's, he's pushed Egwene completely out of his mind. So I'll give Rand that. But like, he's so logical, but I guess she's just so beautiful that it just overpowers. Never underestimate the power of pussy, ladies and gentlemen.

Jess 56:35
Well, and she's absolutely taking advantage of the fact that she- first of all, she's gorgeous.

Jenn 56:42

Jess 56:43
Like, fucking beautiful. And she's taking advantage of the fact that she's dealing with somebody who she knows is still a virgin. Has never seen a woman naked. Has never boned down. Probably has never seen an actual grown woman's legs above like the ankle.

Jenn 57:06

Jess 57:07
Like, she's taking advantage of that. 100% and you want to know what? Use the power you have to get what you need. I'm all about that. But like, it's still it's shady.

Jenn 57:23
With a virgin, that's fucked up like you can't be using all those powers.

Jess 57:29
Yeah, you can't be you can't be using that on somebody who doesn't even have a snowball's chance in hell of knowing what's happening. Like that's a level of manipulation that is not appropriate. Um, so yeah, she's just pulling out all the stops. And you know, honestly, I think between that and his just ridiculously overblown sense of like chivalry, the fucking idiot didn't have a prayer.

Jenn 57:59
But here's what I want like about it, even though she's so beautiful and this and that. He doesn't just fall with everything she says. They argue quite a bit. Like and it just goes to show you that there's there's no incarnation...there's no way that him and- I don't see any sort of future for him and Selene, is my point, in any incarnation is what I'm trying to say. And you know what I'm trying to say with that, Jess. There's no past, present, or future incarnation, where the two of them can jive together other than having sexual tension. They're not made for each other.

Jess 58:34
No, and I mean, he's definitely- he's definitely thinking some dirty thoughts, for sure. But yeah, I mean...

Jenn 58:47
That does not a relationship make.

Jess 58:49
Yeah, well, and I mean, again, his overblown sense of chivalry, I think would prevent him from doing anything because like, even just the helping her with her buttons. Yeah, we're not we're not promised to each other even "Ah", like. Fuck, there are buttons she can't reach like, you can probably help with like the three buttonsshe can't get you by yourself. But whatever, dude.

Jenn 59:16
Yeah, he- teah, but I guess in the Two Rivers you get to understand they're kind of prudish. Um.

Jess 59:25
Yes. That is accurate.

Jenn 59:28
But it's like, then you get into different societies, which we'll get into later that they're not so prudish. I like, I love how Robert Jordan does his world building. We're getting off the point of this chapter. Anyway. Um,

Jess 59:42
It's still good discussion.

Jenn 59:44
Uh, so, hmm.

Jess 59:50

Jess 59:51
I like how he puts the dagger inside of the Horn of Valere so that whoever tries to interact with the Horn of Valere has also come in interaction with the dagger as well. And that might be a deterrent to people who might be trying to use the Horn and could get access to the Horn for nefarious means. Meaning Selene.

Jess 1:00:17
Looking at you, Selene.

Jenn 1:00:19
Looking at it at you.

Jess 1:00:20

Jenn 1:00:21
Um, so I don't think anyone at this point is supposed to like Selene and he wrote that very well. Like, just at face value, just her as a person.

Jess 1:00:32
I mean, honestly, looking at it objectively, from the outside. You can absolutely identify like shady red flag behaviors.

Jenn 1:00:42
But here's the thing. So yeah, I'm gonna do this. Everybody die mad. You have, you- you have a very shady, female character that enters the scene in the Two Rivers, seeming to know more than she's letting on. And trying to guide Rand to do certain things. I'm talking about Moiraine. And she's obviously not outright lies, but just kind of avoids talking about certain things and is shady and you get a feeling of unease as a reader about what she's really about and her intentions. And, but you don't really know if she's good or bad. You think she's mostly good, but you don't know. And then there's a second female character they are introduced to, Selene, and yeah, I'm drawing a comparison between Moiraine and Selene, die mad. That influences Rand's life knowing more obviously, than he does, and seeming Aes Sedai, and her knowledge to the point where he even asked if she was Aes Sedai, because she acts so much like one. And she's obviously just intentionally trying to goad Rand into a certain direction to influence him. But you leave off thinking Moiraine isn't bad, necessarily. But he wrote differently Selene and Moiraine to where you're like you hateSelene, but you don't necessarily outright hate Moiraine. Like, it's so cool. Like how he did that, like, you have two women in power who are trying to use and manipulate Rand, and more than they're letting on. And Moiraine you're okay with kinda. And Selene you fucking hate. And I just I love the difference there between the two. They're both beautiful and regal and graceful and seemingly knowledgeable about everything. ButI don't know, like Moiraine isn't just downright evil. But Selene, you just, you can't stand like...

Jess 1:02:46
Well, I think I think the main difference between the way that Selene and Moiraine are written is that Moiraine, as far as we can tell, is completely upfront about who she is. Right? I'm an Aes Sedai, this is my Warder, Lan. These are the things that I'm doing. She does tell the little white lie at the beginning where she's talking about wanting to get stories, but even that isn't necessarily untrue. She was looking for stories. She was just looking for specific ones. Right? And she's, there are, obviously I've gone off on rants about Moiraine not communicating as much with Rand as she should have.

Jenn 1:03:27

Jess 1:03:28
But she has been fairly upfront with them, with all of them about, "Okay, yeah, I've been looking for you. The Dark One is looking for you." Like pointing to the whole "Whatever the Dark One wants, I oppose and before I let you have him, I will kill you myself." Like, she's not always pulling her punches where as like, we don't necessarily know what her motivations are. Although, I mean, I know that you are naturally distrustful of her and were from the very beginning. I wasn't completely distrustful of her. I mean, I didn't like completely trust her. But, you know, I was sort of reserving judgment and about the time that she said, you know, knowing that Aes Sedai can't lie. When she said, "Before I let him have you, I'll destroy you myself. Here this and know it true." I'm like, Okay, well, she can't be working for the bad guys. Because like, she said that, you know, obviously, there were things I didn't know. Vis-à-vis certain evil organizations, when I read it through the first time, but you know, based on that, you know, I didn't agree with her tactics, but I did feel that her that her sort of motivations were true.

Jenn 1:04:56
Selene, you-you've only known her for like five chapters, you want this bitch gone. You're like, I'm done with her.

Jess 1:05:01
Oh, yeah, just about the time she showed up. I'm like, nope, this bitch gotta go.

Jenn 1:05:06
I'm like- because at first you're like, is this going to be new characters gonna be on all these books? Like you don't know. Like reading this? You're like, I don't want to fucking read about this bitch.

Jess 1:05:15
No, I hate her. She sucks. Yeah, she's like Yoko Ono. Get her out. Get out of the band.

Jenn 1:05:20
Get her done.

Jess 1:05:22
She's gonna fucking break up the Beatles.

Jenn 1:05:26
For real.

Jess 1:05:27
For real. So, uh, yeah. Should we do our Next Time on the White Tower?

Jenn 1:05:36
Let's do it.

Announcer (Jess's husband) 1:05:37
Next time on the White Tower Podcast.

Jess 1:05:40
Beautiful, mysterious woman somehow fails to seduce idiot yokel.

Jenn 1:05:44

Jess 1:05:46
Beautiful, mysterious woman is bad influence, throws temper tantrum. Idiot yokel touches giant magic eight ball, almost falls off cliff.

Jenn 1:05:56
Hmm...(laughter) Okay.

Jess 1:06:00
Your turn.

Jenn 1:06:01
A country boy has something different from steak and potatoes for the first time.

Jenn 1:06:10
Game of Houses. That's my only...just two.

Jess 1:06:14
That's good. I like it. We're building the tension.

Jenn 1:06:20
Okay, we got a new segment, Jess, this is your baby.

Jess 1:06:24
I feel like we should have theme music for it.

Jenn 1:06:27
That's on you, girl.

Jess 1:06:28
Maybe. We'll see. We're gonna start this- we're gonna start doing this new segment called the White Tower stands. S-T-A-N-S, there's no D, we're not standing on or for anything. We are stanning-

Jenn 1:06:41
We are stanning.

Jess 1:06:42
-our baddest bitches.

Jess 1:06:45
So every week, we are going to, based on the chapter that we each read, we are going to say which character in that chapter we stan.

Jenn 1:06:55

Jenn 1:06:56
And maybe a little blurb about why. Yes. So I'll go first. For chapter 18, I stan Nynaeve. Jenn touched upon this a little bit when she, when we were talking about my chapter, but like, let's talk about this bad bitch who has no fucks to give. If Nynaeve had a pocket full of fucks? She would not give a single one. If she had a pocket full of them, she wouldn't give a single one, because she is not here for anybody's bullshit, not even the Amyrlin Seat. Dead-ass gets so pissed off she slams that bitch against the wall. And like we talked about how she couldn't control it. But the thought was fucking there and at this point, she has to know that when she gets pissed off, if she's thinking it, something's going to happen.

Jenn 1:07:52
She gonna die, yeah.

Jess 1:07:53
Yeah, bitch gonna die. So yeah, this chapter I stand Nynaeve.

Jenn 1:07:59
I also stan Nynaeve from your chapter. Absolutely.

Jess 1:08:03
Big Nynaeve stans over here.

Jenn 1:08:05
So for chapter 19 Jenn stansLoial for just being there and he has no fucking reason to be. Like your boy could skate out at literally any- like, he has no point or purpose to even be there. He could just be like "Bitch, y'all crazy, I'm fucking out." He could walk at any moment and just doesn't.

Jess 1:08:35
That's the power of friendship, and that's the power of this Ogier-ass motherfucker doing the needful.

Jenn 1:08:40
He walked into, Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death into that Trolloc camp.

Jess 1:08:47
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of fucking Trollocs.

Jenn 1:08:51
That's what he did. And he's just hanging out ready to die. So...

Jess 1:08:56
Like, seriously, he must have been like, "Alright, well, this is it."

Jenn 1:08:59
He's the number one Ride or Die. There's no other Ride or Die in this story more than Loial. He's your Ride or Die.

Jess 1:09:06
Yeah, for sure. I have to, I have to say, when it comes to Ride or Die, like if I had to pick a single character that we've encountered so far for my Ride or Die, Loial would probably be my number one pick.

Jenn 1:09:20
It's probably what is called Loial.

Jess 1:09:22
And you want to know what? We just came up- we just came up- we just came up with the actual name for the segment.

Jenn 1:09:29
It's called the Ride or Die?

Jess 1:09:31
The White Tower's Ride or Die. We stan.

Jenn 1:09:35
Well, mmm...

Jess 1:09:36
We'll talk about it.

Jenn 1:09:37
It could be a bad person, though. We could, you could stan a not good person if they act in a certain way. Because let me tell you, without giving anything away, I might stan someone that isn't necessarily good later on.

Jess 1:09:56
You think? I know exactly who you're talking about, bitch.

Jenn 1:09:59
I know you know!

Jess 1:09:59
We all stan.

Jenn 1:10:00
Everyone knows!

Jess 1:10:02
So we all stan that person, we all do. If you haven't read about it yet, you will. And you'll know what we're talking about.

Jenn 1:10:08
We've actually already been introduced to this person.

Jess 1:10:12
We all stan. But um, yeah, we-we'll talk about it. But I'm just thinking, I just feel like the White Tower Stans-

Jenn 1:10:18
Ride or Die could be evil, though.

Jess 1:10:20
I mean, here's the thing, because what we're talking about is like, in this chapter, who would we pick for our Ride or Die? Who do we stan? Who is the biggest badass like...

Jenn 1:10:29
Alright, I like what you're saying. I agree with you. I do.

Jess 1:10:31
Who do we like the best? So well, we'll talk about it. But anyway. Yeah, so that is our new, um, our new segment. And you will probably have already seen some Twitter polls. We're going to try and incorporate some Twitter polls into this whole thing to get audience feedback on who they stan.

Jenn 1:10:51
Yeah, we're gonna, I'm gonna probably put out something tonight or something. Probably before I go to bed.

Jess 1:10:56
We should probably coordinate how we're going to do that.

Jenn 1:11:00
Yeah, I'm going to. We don't do anything without the other's knowing.

Jess 1:11:04
Fucking bitch. No, I'm just kidding.

Jenn 1:11:06
We're a symbiotic team.

Jess 1:11:08
We are, we're like, hive mind.

Jenn 1:11:11
We're both parasites on the like, like the fungus on each other's tree roots.

Jess 1:11:18
You'll always be the fungus on my tree roots.

Jenn 1:11:20
I will always be your fungus.

Jess 1:11:26
(laughter) Ohhh, shit.

Jenn 1:11:27
All right.

Jess 1:11:29
Um, right. So Is that everything? Do you have anything else that we need to talk about?

Jenn 1:11:35
I think that's pretty good.

Jess 1:11:39
No more interesting, like, Wheel of Time news.

Jenn 1:11:42
A lot of stuff going on behind the scenes. But we'll get we'll get to that later, and just a little cleanup things that Jess and I were taking care of earlier today. But that's not to be discussed.

Jess 1:11:55
On it a topic of things. One thing that I've been wanting to do for a while, is make the show more accessible to people who are either non-English speakers or are non-hearing individuals. And so what we are going to start doing is we're going to start doing a transcript for each episode. As of right now, I'm going to be putting up- putting it up as a text post on our website, and put a link to that post in the show notes so that you can get to it from there. I'm not completely convinced that that's the way that I want to continue doing it. I don't love it. But as of right now, I don't have a better option. So be on the lookout for that. I'm, we're also going to start uploading our episodes to YouTube. So if you are a person who likes to listen to things on YouTube, you'll be able to listen to the show. It does automatically transcribe closed captioning on videos, but especially with all of these weird fantasy names, I know that's not going to go well. So I am looking into all of the kind can upload your own transcript and like sync it to, um, sync it to your video. So I need to figure out exactly all the whys and wherefores. I've been doing some research on it. But I need to see exactly how it works in order to do that. So hopefully, we will also have have transcripts like closed captioning, accurate closed captioning available on YouTube videos as well. I just keep coming up with all of these ideas that creates more work for us.

Jenn 1:13:27
You mean you.

Jess 1:13:28
Well, I mean, yeah, well. But yeah, so...

Jenn 1:13:34
There's a way, I'll talk with you about it, like I think I- well, I might be able to pitch in or something if you let me know how we can do things.

Jess 1:13:42
Well, that is something I was actually thinking about. The transcription shit is actually fairly easily easy. So maybe we can do a Zoom call. And I can share my screen and show you how it works. It's pretty simple.

Jenn 1:13:54
I would love to do that with you, that way...Yeah. I'm offering.

Jess 1:13:59
Yeah. So is there anything else? I don't think so.

Jenn 1:14:04
I don't think so.

Jess 1:14:05
Um, as always, if you want to find us on the internet and you don't yet know how to do that. You can find us on social media, Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. We are @WhiteTowerPod. If you want to email us you can do that at Our website is Our Discord. Join us on Discord. We have a really great group of people, very accepting and inclusive and amazing people. Lots of great discussions. It's really been popping off lately. It's been a lot of fun.

Jenn 1:14:35
It's been popping off. Our discord is getting pretty lit, fam.

Jess 1:14:38
Yeah, it's been really fun.

Jenn 1:14:39
I was in the D&D chat with my other friends the other day and they're like, Jenn, how many people are in your Discord? And bro, I haven't looked in like four months, almost since we started it.

Jess 1:14:52
It's over 100 by now.

Jenn 1:14:54
It's like 160.

Jess 1:14:56

Jenn 1:14:57

Jess 1:14:58
That's so many people.

Jenn 1:14:59
I'm like how? Obviously not everyone is an active participant.

Jess 1:15:05
Yeah, but they're around.

Jenn 1:15:06
They're around and they're a part of the server. So...

Jenn 1:15:10
Yeah, that's awesome.

Jenn 1:15:11
Yeah, yeah. Thank you for that.

Jess 1:15:13
141 offline. 11 online. 12. 13. So yeah, 150, 160. That's amazing. Um, so yeah, you can find our Discord at, that is an invite link that you can sign up there. And as you probably know, if you've been listening, we are on Patreon. So if you like what we're doing, and you want to support us, it'd be amazing. You can go to and check out what we have available for our patrons. We're creating lots of additional content and having a lot of fun doing it. And if you can't do Patreon, that's totally fine. It's not always a priority for folks. If you can't do it, that's fine. We get it. And, uh, another great thing that you can do to help us out is to rate, review, and subscribe on whatever platform it is that you're using. If you can do iTunes, that's fantastic. There is a barrier to entry because you have to have like an Apple login, which is dumb. But there it is. Otherwise, if the podcast app that you use has the ability to rate and review, you can do it there or you can recommend us on Facebook. Those are all things that help us out a whole hell of a lot. That I believe is everything.

Jenn 1:16:34
I believe it is.

Jess 1:16:36
All right. That is all we have for you this evening. On behalf of all of us here at the White Tower, we thank you very much for listening. We love you very much, and you're doing a great job.

Jenn 1:16:47
Love you, Jess.

Jess 1:16:48
Love you, Jenn.

Both 1:17:25