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[TRANSCRIPT] Ep. 36 - The Great Hunt: Ch. 16 & 17

Jul 3, 2019


Jess 0:34
Okay, are you ready?

Jenn 0:35
I'm ready.

Jess 0:36
All right, one, two to three

Both 0:41
To grolm!

Jess 0:52
Got some ice in that one.

Jenn 0:55

Jess 0:56

Jenn 0:56

Jess 0:57
How are you?

Jenn 0:58
I'm good baby. How are you?

Jess 1:01
I'm fine as frog hair.

Jenn 1:03
I love how you say that, how apropos for tonight's session.

Jess 1:07
Indeed. Very appropriate. Um, hello, everyone, and welcome to the White Tower. I'm Jess, your Amyrlin Seat.

Jenn 1:16
And I'm Jen, your Keeper of the Chronicles.

Jess 1:18
Yeah, she is. Um, so let's talk weather bullshit. We haven't been on our weather bullshit for a while. there really hasn't been a lot to talk about.

Jenn 1:28
There hasn't been a lot to talk about here except that it was raining, raining, raining, raining, pouring the old man is snoring anyway, so it just started pouring down at my house. It's been lightning crash and thunder flash. But that's another story. Nevermind him playing.

No, no, I'm just saying.

Jess 1:55
Greetings. This is Amyrlin Seat coming to you live with news of some major Weather Bullshit in Florida fucking with our recording. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

Jenn 2:11
Okay, now you're back.

Jess 2:14
Okay, you were you were gone for me So okay, it was pouring at your house. It was pouring forever.

Jenn 2:19
Yeah, that's it. That's all the other bullshit.

Jess 2:22
Okay, um, it got hot here.  It was like in the 80s and like 80s up to 90s.

Jenn 2:29
That's really hot for you guys.

Jess 2:31
Yeah, it sucks and we all hate it. Except for the people who are weird.

Jenn 2:36
Yeah, fuck those people.

Jess 2:37
The fuck is wrong with you people? And then yesterday, which is Saturday, we had Shake the Lake which is the big fireworks thing the weekend of or before Fourth of July. And then today we actually had like a huge thunderstorm, like a huge one. Like it thundered for a really long time like, kind of like multiple hours thundering. Which was like, fun. Yeah, love it. This is great. I love it. Totally cool.

Jenn 3:11
The dogs probably are not cool with that.

Jess 3:13
Zoey doesn't give a fuck. She was sitting in her bay window like whatever. But Simon was not excited. He actually cuddled with Rich this time.

Jenn 3:21

Jess 3:23
And was just generally not excited about his life. So yeah, it's just been it's been fucking hot. And if anybody knows a solution to this, I lived in a two story house prior to this as well. nice and cool downstairs, stuffy and gross upstairs. All of the vents are closed downstairs. So theoretically speaking, the cold air should be going upstairs. And I understand that heat rises. But like we're talking about multiple degrees difference between the upstairs and downstairs like downstairs. I'm wearing a hoodie and slippers. Upstairs. I'm like, Oh my god, I need to take more clothes off because this is untenable. So like, I don't I don't know what I'm like, Okay, do we need to get three m film to put over the registers so that we don't have cold air, like leaking out? Or what do we need to do here? Cuz, fuck.

Jenn 4:25
I am the last person to give advice on that. But I will say something that I saw on Twitter today. And I retweeted on my personal Twitter that has to kind of not kind of do with weather bullshit, but just talking about the difference between Wisconsin and Florida. Somebody said that people use their hand to describe the shape of Michigan.

Jess 4:46

Jenn 4:47
And people from Florida just whip out their dick. And I said-

Jess 4:52
That's on brand. It's on brand for Florida, I feel like.

Jenn 4:57
I'm like Actually, yes. So there is is uh, I don't know if this was a manufactured tale or not. But there's, I hardly go on Facebook anymore. I think we've talked about this like, just like a cesspool. But there was something that I saw today about there was a quote unquote police report about a woman that had a bag of meth in her purse. And she said that she blamed it on the wind. It was a windy day, and it was just floated into her purse. The cops found a bag of meth in there.

Jess 5:29
I mean, points for creativity.

Jenn 5:32
So I'm like that's - it was Polk County, which is just a kind of a seedy place here in Florida. So I'm like, Yeah, well, you know, that only thing that makes sense about this is it's from Polk County. So that's kind of fun. So what are you guys doing for Fourth of July?

Jess 5:51
Probably nothing. As of this moment, my parents and my sister have not made any overtures vis a vis some kind of family gathering. Now, that does not mean that it will not be forthcoming. But as of right now, we have no plans, which means that we'll be sitting around at home and enjoying our day off.

Jenn 6:11
That's really cool. Yeah, that's sometimes that's a blessing.

Jess 6:14
Yeah. And that's kind of my favorite thing to do on holidays.

Jenn 6:18
Yeah, for sure.

Jess 6:20
I'm basically a hermit. Sooooo, there's that.

Jenn 6:23
Me too. So Chris's birthday-

Jess 6:26
My house is nice. All my stuff is here. My dogs are here. I don't I don't have to wear pants, like, awesome.

Jenn 6:33
Yeah. That when you go outside here, it's like, blinding ass hot. Like, sometimes I'll think about trying to take a picture of the temperature outside when I get into my car after it's been sitting all day. Because on the concrete or whatever, from work and you getting into it and the gauge, it reads like 107 degrees now in the past couple days. And I'm just like, yes. Yeah, like just started summer, it's going to get even hotter. I've seen 120 before. Hundred 115, 120.

Jess 7:07
We get that too. Like, while I went to the salon, which actually came along and he sat in a coffee house, a couple blocks away and just like read and stuff. And after it was done, we went to the restauran that's next door to my salon, called Alchemy. It was very good. But our car was parked kind of out front and the sun was shining in the windshield. And it was already hot and humid outside. It was like it was really humid. And then we opened the car doors and we're like, Fuck, we're glad we don't have leather seats. This is bullshit. It was very warm inside the car. So you said something about Christmas birthday?

Jenn 7:48
Yes, on July 6.

Jess 7:50
So are you guys doing anything?

Jenn 7:52
I don't know. But it's his 40th. So it's kind of like your 40th is it's a big, it's a big, big one for him. A big day. Obviously. We're both off. I don't know what we're going to do. We'll probably go somewhere. I don't know. But it's good.

Jess 8:09
Find out where the old people have lunch and go do that.

Jenn 8:19
Get your get your happy meal, or not not happy meal.

Jess 8:23
Your senior discount? Yeah.

Jenn 8:25
What do you call it when you eat dinner early? Early Bird? Early bird, early bird.

Jess 8:29
Yeah, get your Early Bird special. You eat at 3:30. Because you go to bed at six.

Jenn 8:33
Yeah, that's already us. That's literally already us. I'm up way past my bedtime, guys, recording. Way past my bedtime.

Jess 8:42
Oh God, the last few nights my sleep cycle has been like I mean, the last couple weeks my sleep cycle has been fucked. I've been going to bed at like one or two o'clock. I'm like, I need to get my shit together. I can't be doing this.

Jenn 8:54
Yes, but you want to start getting up to exercise in the morning.

Jess 8:57
Yeah, I was doing really well with that actually.

Well, I had to - I had that day, if you remember, where I actually had to be available at work at like 2am because I was doing social media coverage for-

Jenn 9:12
For Singapore or something?

Jess 9:14
London. And so I was doing remote social media coverage. So you know, they started at 8am which is 2am my time so I had to be on by then. And then like that just sort of started like the cascade and then like the whole mental health thing. And now I'm just fucking jacked. But I think I'm going to force myself out of bed tomorrow to do a fitness because like there's like 60 days until DragonCon and I gotta-

-was that Thunder?

Jenn 9:46
Did you hear it?

Jess 9:47
Yeah, I did.

Jenn 9:47
That's how bad it is right now.

Jess 9:49
Holy shit.

Jenn 9:50
It's like pouring down right here. So-

Jess 9:53
That is fucking crazy.

Jenn 9:55
I didn't know that, cool. Anyway, it's probably interferring with the feed. Huge storm cell right above us.

Jess 10:02
Oh, man. Well, hopefully it passes before too long. Um, so as most of you know, this is a podcast by Robert Jordan's epic fantasy series, The Wheel of Time. Maybe we should talk about that.

Jenn 10:19
You want to talk about all the work that you did today? Like all this stuff that people can, like, guys. She was on her bullshit today. Ya'll have no idea.

Jess 10:28
I really was. I felt like... in the morning I spent just like chilling out. I dicked around on the internet. And I played Stardew Valley-

Jenn 10:36
As we do. How are you liking that still?

Jess 10:38
It's really fun. I'm kind of addicted to it. Yeah, it's it's a fun game. Then this afternoon, I did my like I actually did my reading for the show while I was at the salon. So basically, when my hair was cooking, I read my read the chapters. And then today, I did my show prep. And then I edited our Patreon episode, the episode that we do for our $10 patrons, the Aes Sedai level, it is called The Thirteeth Depository. And that's basically our spoilers-out episode where we talk about everything. The topic this month, it comes out once a month. The topic this time was Warders. So we talked about the Warder bond and all that. So I got that edited. It's like an hour and 45 minutes long. I did not take anything out. It was all solid gold. It was so fucking funny. By the end, we went like off the rails so bad. You were trying to wrap things up. And I was just like, wait, no, we need to talk about this other thing. And you're like, What the fuck are you doing? There was very, very good. So that was a lot of fun. I was, like, doing other stuff that didn't require me listening Aes Sedai level, $10 a month, and you can get that amazing episode. And you're welcome.

Jenn 12:06
It's actually really, really fun.

Jess 12:08
Oh, that was a really good episode.

Jenn 12:10
We were off the rails. There's already like, how many hours would you say we already have uploaded there between our - because every, because on Patreon we put up every single episode that you're listening to now, we have a pre and post, mostly pre, a session that's sometimes very, very long before we actually even start recording. And then you guys get your own episode on top of that. So there's hours and hours and hours.

Jess 12:39
Yeah. And I mean, I would say...there are four Thirteenth Depository episodes up. And those are all, I want to say they're all an hour and a half to two hours. So there's that. So we're talking, I don't know, six to eight hours of content there. Plus, you know, some of the the pre and post chatter episodes we call Salidar After Dark. And those vary in length, depending on how much we're on our bullshit. So some of them are actually quite short, like, 8 to 10 minutes. Other ones are longer. They're like 30 minutes long, depending on what we're yapping about. So I'll also take like, if there are moments in the middle of recording, where like shit goes wild. And we're like, Okay, that cannot go in the main show. We fucked up or this is real, even for us, like not really appropriate.

Jenn 13:28
Yeah, it's a serious sex talk or outtakes or something.

Jess 13:31
Yeah, like we have one where we like, went into detail about sex stuff. And I was like, Okay, this is not for general audiences, I will consider putting it in Salad After Dark, I have to listen to it again. But um, I kind of put all that stuff together into those episodes. And those are just a lot of fun, because it's just a lot of the silly chatter. Because really, every time we sit down to talk, it's kind of like when we first start it's like Jenn and I just sort of catching up. Like we're talking on the phone just being like, Hey, are you doing what's going on or whatever.

Jenn 14:01
What's going on, cuz we're friends. Guys, we are weird.

Jess 14:06
We like each other and everything.

Jenn 14:08
Fuckin' wild. Batshit. 

Jess 14:10
Yeah. Anyway, this honestly, it's, it's not so much a plug about Patreon. Just sort of like, there's really fun stuff up there. And I'm proud of what we're doing. So, um, so yeah, I got the the big Patreon bonus episode of the Thirteenth Depository done. And while I was doing that, I came up with an idea for... so we have the $1 tier on Patreon, where you get access to the Patreon-only Discord stuff. And then you basically get your name in the Book of Novices. And everybody who is a supporter gets that. And we have like a special little graphic that I made that your name goes in there and everything. And then I go into Instagram, and I put like a fun filter and an animated sticker, and then it goes into our Instagram story. And then I put it in the highlight. So there's actually a highlight in our Instagram story for the Book of Novices. And I was thinking, Okay, I want to do something that's more fun and kind of more visible because not everybody's on Instagram. And there are people who are on Instagram who don't live the Instagram story life. So I'm thinking, Okay, what's a way that we can make this more visible and I thought, Okay, I'm going to make a slideshow. So I made a slideshow of those images, and it's animated. It's the animated images. So the thank yous are animated and everything. And I got new music for it. I found it on Audio Jungle.

Jenn 15:36
That is our - that is where we get our music, guys. We're just shamelessly plugging. They don't, they don't pay us. We're just saying.

Jess 15:42
No, we pay them. I've given them a fair amount of money since we started this because we have now three theme songs. I bought a bleep sound effects from them a while back. And now we have another song that's going to go underneath those slideshows. So I put that together I was listening to the Patreon episode and kind of doing edit so they went so I got that done. And I got to export it and I uploaded it to YouTube. And gosh, what else did I do?

Jenn 16:12
Our Patreon video!

Jess 16:13
Yeah, Jenn and I decided that we were going to do an introduction video to put on our main Patreon page. So basically we have our written introduction. And then we do a video introduction and it's basically pretty much just like the bullshit that we do here like we get a little off topic from time to time, but we still kept it to like a tight three minutes so that's not too bad.

Jenn 16:35
That's not too bad.

Jess 16:36
Not too bad. So um yeah, so I got that edited and got it put together so that Jenn could look at it. Did you get the link that I sent you?

Jenn 16:44
I did, I looked at it but I have not been as - well I have been productive but just doing other things. I actually have some time off next week is the fourth of July holiday and everything. I will kind of let you know, we'll get it up this week for sure guys.

Jess 17:00
I just want to like I want to make sure that you're happy with it cuz we can always re record if you want to or whatever so.

Jenn 17:05
I'm pretty happy with it.

Jess 17:07
I just feel like it's very on-brand for us.

Jenn 17:09
It's so on-brand. It's like, Please give us money, we're two bitches that don't know what the fuck we're doing come on.

Jess 17:16
We're idiots.

Jenn 17:17
We basically just like slav squatting outside, fuckin'... Yeah, remember that? I'm gonna bring that shit back up, outside of a store going, Lonely and impoverished nerds that like to read. Donate to a good cause. Good cars. Come on. That's us.

Jess 17:39
Oh, yeah. And then we like we throw other little, like, pictures. We threw some JordanCon photos up there and just general like silly stuff from when we're recording and stuff like that. So um, yeah, it's fun. I hope people like it. So yeah, there's that. And so really, that's kind what I was focusing on today, this afternoon, so it was very productive. I got a lot of points in Habitica for getting that shit done.

More weather bullshit. And now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Welcome back.

Jenn 18:31

Jess 18:31
It's okay. It's not your fault. You can't control the weather. As far as I know. You never know you could have weather Dominator and you're just fucking with me.

Jenn 18:43
Why do you think I like weather bullshit so much?

Jess 18:46
Cuz your fucking weather Dominator, goddammit.

Jenn 18:48
Dammit. I'm Storm.

Jess 18:54
So proud of you.

Jenn 18:55
She's like one of the best x men like I fucking love Storm. Are you kidding me?

Jess 18:59
I am not super familiar with X-men. Like I know, l ike if I see somebody dressed up as Cyclops I know that but I don't actually know anything about it.

Jenn 19:11
I don't even, okay, I'm not a comic book nerd. I don't like the Marvel Cinematic Universe, sorry everybody. But I, before they started making these movies, like for the very first X-Men, like the cartoon X-Men that was back on like in the day with like, the yellow jumpsuits and I hate what they've done with it and they made it the Wolverine show. Okay, I know all y'all are Hugh Jackman fans. I know. I understand that. I get it. But I don't really care about the Wolverine show. I like the X-Men, like, the concept of that.

Jess 19:44
It seems like it's been a while since - and I mean, bear in mind that I'm talking out of my ass here. I don't actually know. But it does seem a little bit like they've been really focusing on the sort of big name celebrity. Like, Sansa - the woman who played Sansa - God, I can't - Sophie-

Jenn 20:04
Jean Grey, Sophie Turner.

Jess 20:06
Yeah, she did a Phoenix movie.

Jenn 20:10
Yeah, she's the Dark Phoenix, yeah. It came out and it tanked, it has been really really bad.

Jess 20:15
That's sucks.

Jenn 20:16
No one went and seen it, like, I don't think they've made even budget yet. It's very bad.

Jess 20:21
That sucks, because I mean, the previews that I saw, it looks really cool. And I think Sophie Turner is cool.

God damn.

Jenn 20:30
That's what I'm talking about.

Jess 20:31
Are you gonna die?

Jenn 20:34
This is Florida. It's fine.

Jess 20:37
Okay, so let's go ahead now that we're like, I think 15 minutes into the show.

Jenn 20:44
Do you want to do-

Jess 20:46
You wanna do the Wheel of Time?

Jenn 20:48
Yeah, let's do it. I'm ready.

Jess 20:49
Okay, cool. So my synapsass this week is on chapter 16 of The Great Hunt, In the Mirror of Darkness.

Jenn 21:02
Lights up!

Jess 21:03

Lights up Hurin scolding "Lord Rand" for keeping watch all night because if Rand wears himself out for Hurin and Loial's sake, who's going to get them home? It's barely dawn and the fog from the night before is gone. Rand is like, it's cool. I needed to think. Nothing around them indicates that anything had gone down with fog or Ba'alzamon. The only thing that let Rand know that it was real is the heron branded into his palm, which he has wrapped in a handkerchief. Rand wants to bounce the fuck out of there. So he tells them to mount up and eat breakfast on the road. Loial notices Rands fucked up hand and asks what happened. Rand's like, I hurt it. It's fine. Loial offers to let him use a salve that he has in his bag and Rand bites his head off about it. He feels bad, but he really doesn't want to have to answer the questions they'll have once they see the brand and I mean, that's fair. But there are ways to be nice about it, you know? And Loial's like, okay, you grumpy fuck and they head out. Rand watches the ground carefully. One would assume even in a fucked up alternate reality that a herd of Trollocs would leave some kind of mark on the ground as they pass, but they apparently don't, even though their own passage leaves the expected marks. There's nothing ahead of them to indicate anyone else had passed. Rand doesn't seem to consider the possibility that it's because the Trollocs didn't actually go that way. But whatever. Hurin still has the trail even though it's very faint, and he's on that shit like a boss. Loial's talking to himself and rubbing his smooth staff, which is some very senusal imagery, RJ, thank you. They haven't been on the road very long when Rand notices a spire up ahead and he's like, What the fuck is that, do you reckon? And Loial's like, IDK and Hurin is like, Um, if that were our world that would be where Artur Hawkwing's monument is. Except that it doesn't exist anymore. Sooooo.

Loial's like, Ingtar said that it's like four days ahead of us and even if it exists in this world, I don't see how it could since there aren't any people here. And Hurin's like yeah, that's some shit, eh? No people, but there it is. I think we should see steer clear. Rands like hm, we need to stick to the trail as close as possible. I don't want to lose more time. Rand proceeds to explain his thought process and Hurin's like, okay, and Rand realizes that he doesn't need him to explain it. He just needs to be given an order. So Rand rolls his eyes internally and thinks "I didn't tell him I was a lord". And a little voice in his head says "yes, but you let him do it anyway, so suck it up" and he says just follow the damn trail and Hurin is all relieved like Oh, good. As they get closer to the spire Rand can see that it's 100 spans high which, I did the math, that is 1200 feet, or roughly the height of the Empire State Building.

Jenn 23:46
Oh, wow.

Jess 23:47
It's big.

Thank you for that. I think our audience is gonna appreciate it.

Yeah, I hope so. I was like, okay, 1200 feet, and I was like, Okay, I'm gonna like Google skyscrapers that are 1200 feet high. Because it's hard to visualize right? So it also has a bird with outstretched wings on top and Rand's like, Hell yeah, it's Hawkwings monument. Let's go look at it, Hurin, you can tell your kids about it, and Hurin's like yeah, that's cool. And Loial's Ummmmm. Rand gallops toward the monument and the others follow. Loial's hollering something at him but he just laughs and they ride up to the spire When he gets a look at it, though, he's not laughing anymore. Hurin's like, this don't look right. And sure enough, the stuff carved into it are symbols of different Trolloc bands and a dead hawk with a raven pecking at its eyes. Loial's like, bruh I tried to tell you the bird on top is a raven, not a hawk and Rand's like how in the fuck, Hawkwing won. And Loial's like, not here he didn't and Loial goes on to explain that based on what he's read he figures that there in a "maybe" world, a version of the Pattern that could have happened but didn't. In this version theTrollocs won and ate everybody and then possibly each other and now everything is gone. Hurin thinks he sees a woman in a clump of trees about a mile away, but second guesses himself because everything in this world is so fucked up. Loial's like we also need to discuss the fact that we're already almost to Kinslayer's Dagger. Kinslayer's Dagger is a mountain range that is over 100 leagues south of the river Erinin, in which they had just crossed before they got transported. They're all like what the fuck because there's no way they could have covered that distance in three days and Rand's like, maybe it's like the Ways in here. And Hurin's like fuck that, and Rand regrets saying it because Hurin gets rather upset about it.

Jenn 25:26
Yeah, cuz it's fucking scary.

Jess 25:27
Oh yeah, the Ways suck. Pretty much everybody knows the Ways are all fucked up with a thing in there that will eat you or drive you crazy. Even fades don't like to go in there. And Loials like, okay so does that mean that the slightest misstep here can kill us like it can in the Ways? We've been drinking water and just like fucking off like normal. Hurin gets all paranoid and is looking around like something's going to come out of nowhere and eat him, and Rand's like, keep your shit together, Hurin, we just have to be careful from here on out. At that moment they hear a scream. Hurin's like, it's a lady! And they hear another, more desperate scream. Rand figures it's coming from the south and they light out after it. They get to a stream and see that there's a woman and a horse next to the stream. And she's using a stick to fend off some fucked up looking creature that looks like a bear-sized frog.

Jenn 26:11
Yeah, that's fucking...yeah.

Jess 26:14
Rand jumps off his horse and gets his bow out. It's hard to judge the distance because the world is so wobbly, but it's a big target and he hits the creature in the side. It turns to look at them and it's got a huge wedge shaped head and a hooked beak. I imagine it like it's a triceratops. And it's got three eyes and it comes right after him.

Jenn 26:32
Oh, like a triceratops. That's kind of cool.

Well it sort of has - the way I imagined it is that it's got like a nose that kind of like goes to a point and then it's got the hook at the end, and triceratops have a setup like that. That's just kind of how I always imagined it. Like I'm not saying this looks like a triceratops but its beak is reminiscent of that. So um the woman, now strangely calm, shouts out that he needs to hit the creature in the eye. Rand seeks the Void, even though he doesn't want, to because he knows that's the only way that he'll make the shot. He has a short moment of "My Daddy" and then shoots the fuck out of the creature and hits it right in the center eye, and it falls down, dead as fuck. The woman's like, good hustle. It's hard to kill a Grolm, and she rides over. Rand is kind of surprised that she didn't run like hell as soon as she had a chance. The woman is in a white dress with a skirt divided for riding. She wears a silver belt and white boots tooled in silver, just like the saddle on her white horse. Rand figures she's about Nynaeve's age and he's pretty much captivated. She's tall with pale skin and black hair and black eyes and he knows a lot of pretty women but this one is so pretty it makes him stupid. Like really literally stupid.

Yeah, he does. Yeah, he's like-

Jess 27:41
Just like, fucking dumb, just-

Jenn 27:44
Yeah, he is, he's captivated by the pussy, that pussy has him by the nose. It's just holding...anyway. Go ahead.   

Jess 27:53
Hurin and Loial ride up and Hurin is staring at the woman like a slack-jawed yokel and even Loial's like, how you doing? Rand introduces them and then himself, and Loial gets weird and says "if there were such a thing as perfect human beauty-" and Rand's like, dude be cool for like a second and everybody's embarrassed because they were all thinking the same thing. The woman laughs at them for being idiots and then is all regal and shit. And she says her name is Selene and says, You have risked your life and saved mine. I am yours, Lord Rand Al' Thor, and then she kneels in front of him and Rand's like, No, what the fuck are you doing? Stand up. And he pulls her to her feet. And then he says "A man who will not die to save a woman is no man," and then I rolled my eyes so hard I flew into the sun and died and you're talking to my ghost.

Jenn 28:34
Yeah, because that's like, it's like, Oh, God. Oh, yeah. The damsel in distress. I'm like, okay.

Jess 28:41
Go fuck yourself. Seriously.

Jenn 28:44
It's pretty bad. It's very bad.

Jess 28:48
I don't like it. So, evidently, this is a Shienaran saying, and he realizes as he says it that he sounds like a pompous ass, but he can't stop himself, and he stutters for a bit and finally says, it was my honor. She's watching him so intently that he feels naked and then he thinks about her naked and he blushes like crazy, the filthy boy, and is like, so where are you from? We haven't seen any other people is your village near here? And she's like, I'm from Cairhien, but I'm not from this world. There are no people here just the grolms and other shady creatures. I don't know how I got here. I was riding and stopped for a nap and hey presto here I was. Hopefully you can save me and get me home. Rand's like, uh please call me Rand, and thinks to himself it won't hurt if I let her think I'm a lord. Of course I'll help you but we have to find these other dudes first, he says. Selene doesn't answer for a bit and her face is blank. And finally she's like, a man of duty. That's hot. Who are you following? Hurin, having absolutely zero chill, busts in at this point like, we're following dark friends and Trollocs, they fucked up Fal Dara and stole the Horn of Valere but Lord Rand will get it back. And Rand looks at him like, really?

Jenn 29:52
And Rand's like, bitch what the - telling her we're looking for the Horn of Valere?

Jess 29:57
Rand's just like, what the fuck dude. And Hurin's like-

Jenn 30:00
This is secret super secret boy band mission.

Jess 30:02
I mean, and he just fucked the whole thing. And Hurin's like, *shrug*. Rand's like okay-

Jenn 30:09
I guess that's pussy power, because she could just get men to tell their whole life, like their deepest, darkest secrets.

Jess 30:16
Like, I mean, is there really a woman that exists that's so hot that you would just like throw up-

Jenn 30:22
Blurt out everybody's business, not even yours. But like, everyone's?

Jess 30:26
Just spill everyboy's tea. You just flood everything with everybody's tea, like fuck off. So Rand's like, Okay, look, you can't tell anybody about the Horn because if you do we'll have a zillion people chasing after it and Selen's like oh, yeah, we can't let the wrong folks get that. You know, I've always dreamed of holding it when you find it. Can I touch it? Rand's like, well, we do have to find it first. So let's get going. And he and Hurin sort of fall over themselves to help her mount her horse and Rand's like, oh my god her skin's so soft. Out loud he says, whatever it was-

Jenn 30:58
He gets weird about it.

Jess 31:00
Seriously like what do you want to wear her like a costume dude? What the fuck.

Jenn 31:08
He's like Ed Gein.

Jess 31:10
Eddie Gein. He's from Wisconsin, you know?

Jenn 31:13
Is he? Fuck.

Jess 31:15
Yeah, we have Ed Gein and Jeffrey Dahmer. So our serial killer game is strong. So anyway.

Jenn 31:26
The gray man. Go ahead.

Jess 31:28
Um, right. Out loud he says, whatever it was I killed there, there might be more of them. And Selen's like, oh, there are. It takes a couple tries for Rand to get Hurin's attention because he's staring it Selene like a certified creep. But they finally get moving. Selene rides with Rand at first and she asks him a lot of questions and keeps calling him Lord. And every time she does, he starts to tell her he's a shepherd, not a lord. Then he stops himself because she wouldn't talk to him the same way if she knew. She says that finding and sounding the Horn will make him a great man, a legend. And Rand's like, I do not want to be part of any legend, and then thinks about how good she smells. Selene's like, every man wants to be great. And you could be the greatest ever. And Rand thinks that this sounds way too much like what Moiraine had said about him being the Dragon Reborn. He's like, Yeah, no, I'm good. I just want to find it and help on my friend. Selene sees that his hand is hurt and he lets her unwrap the bandage for whatever reason, and she looks at it and it's swollen and angry and painful, obviously. And the heron mark stands out really clearly. And she's like, I have some ointment and she spreads it on and it feels cold at first but then warms up and before you know it the swelling and redness are gone. Hmm. That's weird.

Jenn 32:37
Oh, completely gone. I think I read it in the book like it's like a week old is what it comes to. Like it's sadness on his palm but like otherwise it's all the burning he experienced is down. Like he's had it for a week and now it's just a scar.

Jess 32:57
Yeah. It's like basically all of the swelling and redness and pain that went with having something literally branded into your palm ia gone. Interesting that an ointment is capable of doing that, don't you think?

Jenn 33:09
Oh yeah. You thought what I thought. Go ahead.

Jess 33:15
Selene talks about how how some men seek greatness and others are forced, and that it's always better to seek it because if you're forced you're dancing on the strings of whoever forced you. Rand's like, the fuck are you talking about, and she's like the Horn, duh. If you find it, you won't be able to avoid being fucking famous. You just have to decide whether you take it or if it's forced on you. And Rand's like, are you Aes Sedair? And she's like, Yeah, no, and he's like, sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. And she's like no offense taken, but fuck Aes Sedai, though. They suck at everything, and she touches his arm and he's like, ahhh!, and then she falls back to talk with Loial for a little bit. Rand is simultaneously relieved and bummed. He turns around to stare at her talking to Loial and he's all ratted off for some reason that she's far away from him. And he reminds himself that he loves Egwene, but man Selene is beautiful and thinks he's a lord, and says he could be a great man, and he has an argument with himself about it for a bit and then he just sulks. He keeps an eye on the road to make sure that none of the grolm are going to come fuck with them. Nobody else is paying attention because they're all wrapped up with Selene. The mountains are drawing closer and then suddenly Loials beside him likem she says you're right about this place. And he looks around and Selene is riding with Hurin, who's grinning like a fool and kissing ass. And he's like, what do you mean and Loials like, she knows a ton about history and shit and apparently back in the day Aes Sedai studied these worlds, these alternate worlds, and that's how they came up with the Ways. And he goes on to explain that there are a bunch of alternate realities This one is pale because it was very unlikely to have ever happened but there are others that are almost as real as the prime reality and with all the same people and shit and you could actually go there and meet yourself and whatnot. t

Jenn 34:46
That's crazy.

Jess 34:46
That is crazy. And Rand's like how the fuck does she know all that? And Loial's like, she's Cairhienen and they have bad ass libraries there. The Aiel deliberately didn't burn their library down when they attacked because they won't destroy books. And Rand's like, I don't give a fuck about Aielmen. If she's so smart, I hope she knows how to get the fuck out of here. I wish Selene...and then all sudden she's like, he wishes Selene what? And Rand's like, I wish Selene would ride with me some more, which is objectively pretty fucking smooth. Loial laughs at him and falls back. They ride in silence for a while and Rand gets all up in his feelings, trying to sort out what Selene's deal is, if Moiraine sent her to keep an eye on him, and thinking about how she's so beautiful and intelligent and well-educated and what else could a guy want in a wife, and it's like Jesus, dude, pump the brakes for a second, fuck. He and Selene make some small talk about his good shot killing the grolm, and he explains about how Tam taught him about the Flame and the Void. Selene calls it the Oneness. And she says that if you wrap yourself in it all the time, you can get real good at using it. And he thinks about the queasy light in there and is like, I'll think about it. And she pushes the issue, saying that if he wears it all the time he'll find uses for it he never expected. And he's like, look, I said think about it. And he goes on to ask her how she knows all the shit when Loial doesn't even know it, and Loial has read like a million books. Selene gets her sass on and is like I read it in a book called Mirrors of the Wheel. Loial hasn't seen every book that exists. She keeps calling Loial "alantin". And Rand starts to ask her what that's all about. But she cuts him off and points out the portal stone that she came through from. Rand asks Hurin about the trail and it's getting fainter, but it's still there. And it seems to be heading toward Kinsalyer's Dagger. Selene is like, it'll only take an hour and then you can send me home, come on. And Rand's like I have to follow the Horn. And she's like, how do you even know it's here, come with me. I promise you'll find your legend. And Rand's starting to get pissed off about all the legend stuff. And he's like, you can use the stone yourself. It didn't bring you here all on its own. And she's like, I don't know what I did to make it happen. And he looks at her and she's regal, but soft, proud but vulnerable. He initially thought she was Nynaeve's age, but now she seems closer to his own age and she's beautiful and she needs him. And she's basically playing him like a fucking fiddle, like Dude, wake up. He doesn't want to use the portal stone because that means using the Power and he's like, stay with me. We'll go back after we found the Horn and dagger. Selen seems close to losing her temper but gets herself under control. And she's like, You're always so stubborn. Well, I can admire that. There isn't much to a man who's easy to boss around. And Rand blushes at this and thinks about how it's kind of like the stuff Egwene used to say to him, since they've been all been officially engaged since they were kids, and she knew him really well. But hearing that kind of talk from Selene is kind of a shock because like, she's talking to him like he's somebody that she's known for a long time. And obviously that is not true. Then they hear a grunt behind them. And before they can turn to look, there are more grolms. There are five of them after that. Selene's like ,Oh, grolm. It's a small pack, but apparently they have our scent. And thus endeth the synapsass.

Jenn 37:52
So I don't really have any notes for that. But can we say who, on first reading, I thought this was? Can we say who Selene or is that supposed to be a big deal? Like, at this point it's not a shock.

Jess 38:08
Okay, no, it's not a shock. I don't think it's a shock. But like, I feel like it's fine to say who we kind of thought it was to begin with. Because if we both thought it, it seems like other people probably thought it.

Jenn 38:19
Can ask you a question? This is not a spoiler.

Jess 38:21

Jenn 38:23
Did you have a clue when you were first reading this who you thought this girl was?

Jess 38:29
Yes. I had an inkling. W

Jenn 38:32
Did your clue that you thought, end up being right later when you find out who Selene is?

Jess 38:37

Jenn 38:39
So when upon your first read through this, reading this chapter not knowing anything? Are you like, Oh, I think this girl might be "blank".

Jess 38:48

Jenn 38:49
And then later you're like, Oh, it's exactly what I thought it was all along, because I had the same exact thought on my first read through. Because I think it's a secret but I don't think the reader supposed to be... I think the reader's supposed to guess that.

Jess 39:08
I feel like the reader's supposed to guess that. So I feel like we can say who it is.

Jenn 39:13
Because if you and I both independently at different times thought that, being our first read-through...Okay, first of all, Selene knows too much. She's not just some random person that appeared as mirror world we're literally nothing is living. And it's a mirror world with the Trollocs have won instead of Artur Hawking. And here she is, this a woman in distress, but she has all these powers and heals Rand. But she hates Aes Sedai.

Jess 39:43
But we also have to think okay, this woman is dressed all in white. Let's remember that in two different villages Ingtar was losing his damn mind because he thought he saw a woman in white in the buildings in two of the villages that they stopped at. The Hurin thought he saw a woman in the brush, like a mile away from them. And then Egwene, when she had that dream she saw a woman, I believe she said it was a woman in white, standing over Rand while he was sleeping in that, like, hollow in the hill.

Jenn 40:19
So this woman in white has already been publicized, to kind of be on their shit, right? All of a sudden, she's around this evil creature. Right? A she knows all about the grolm, like she knows what they are. She knows what the portal stone does.

She knows how to kill grolm. And so then she comes in and she's like, Okay, well, I'm not an Aes Sedai. Aes Sedail are fucking stupid. But then she takes his hand, which, okay, think about it. Think about anytime you've gotten a burn even a really small burn. Like you accidentally hit your arm against the side of a cookie sheet that's just come out of the oven. And it hurts. It swells and it's red and it's angry and it hurts. And it takes a long time to heal it and it doesn't matter what the fuck you put on it. It doesn't stop hurting. No, she takes his burnt-ass hand. His whole hand, branded, it was so hot that it branded a heron into his palm. She puts some fucking ointment on it and then it calms down and looks like it's been healed for like however long?

She knows about all the different Ways and calls Loial this ancient word that she knows about and she's read all these books, and she ended up being this world but she doesn't know how, she's insanely beautiful...Can we say she is?

Jess 41:48
Let's just fuckin' say it.

Jenn 41:50
I don't care guys.

Jess 41:51
Like, I don't think it's that much of a spoiler. If you haven't figured it out by now you will soon. Selene is Lanfear.

Jenn 41:56
Saline is Lanfear. She's one of the Forsaken, so for those of you who haven't read the book said you have heard of her already. She's called the daughter of the night, one of the forsaken. Okay, so you have those ugly guys Rand burns to a crisp at the end of the last book which is Balthamel and Aginor, but there is eleven-

Jess 42:23
There's thirteen Forsaken.

Jenn 42:24
Thank you, Forsaken. And Lanfear is considered beautiful, and the ex-lover of Lews Therin before he found his wife Ilyena that he burns in the prologue. So along with the rest is-

Jess 42:26
And Lanfear is among the most powerful of the Chosen.

Jenn 42:41
Lanfear is among the most powerful, just under Ishamael. She's the second most powerful. So she's Lanfear. So you found a beautiful seductress. Who is obviously flirting and he's like - what gives it away is she goes, you're always so stubborn. I'm like, always so stubborn. Like how she said that canon in the book of that you're always so stubborn.

Jess 43:13
And like, what the fuck does she know about him? And him being stubborn.

Jenn 43:17
Yeah, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. She remembers she sees Lews Therin in Rand. Yeah. So who was once her lover. Yes, a long time ago. So.

Jess 43:28
 She didn't take it well when he broke up with her.

Jenn 43:31
She did not take - that's an understatement.

Jess 43:36
I mean, honestly, it's a very kind of, it's a very kind of fatal attraction kind of situation that Lanfear and Lews Therin have going on there. Like, it's not good. Yeah. So uh, yeah, so her ass shows up. And it's really transparent what it is that she's trying to do. She's not that subtle. But Rand's an idiot. So he doesn't really understand what it is that she's trying to do.

Jenn 44:04
I just, I just want to thank Robert Jordan for his writing here, because as a as a girl reading this, it really gave some insight as to what a young, inexperienced man - he wrote from, because Robin Jordan was an older gentleman when he wrote, he wrote very well what an inexperienced young man feels around a flabbergastingly beautiful woman, like one of the first you ever meet, and you don't, you're not, you're unequipped to handle your emotions with the opposite sex, and you may still be a virgin. And that whole awkwardness? He did. He did that very well. He wrote those skipping emotions of Rand, wanting to feel great, and over-pompous and powerful, but then Rand's natural logic coming back in and going, What the fuck, why are you acting this way?He he wrote that very, very well.

Jess 45:02
Yeah, he really did. And I mean, I feel like Rand really, to a large extent, showed more self-awareness in those moments than a lot of men his age probably would have. Like, I'm thinking about what Mat would have done in that situation and Mat, just like, he would have just dropped trou and been like, what's up?

Jenn 45:22
Drop trou, I love that you said that. Chris says that too. Drop trou. That's what he would have done.

Jess 45:27
Yeah, he just would have been like, dropped his pants, dick out like, Hey, girl, what's up dick?

Jenn 45:32
Full Florida.

Jess 45:36
That's a new saying you're going full Florida. Mat would have gone full Florida.

Jenn 45:40
Full Florida. Not full frontal? Yes. But also full Florida. That's a new term. But that, that's it. But honestly, like he did very well because of getting his natural thought processes come into play. But you see that right in the very first chapter, the first book Rand is logical compared to his two friends. He's, he tried that, that he's like "Durr", like, he starts to shake himself out of it like a wet dog. That's what he literally tries to do. But Jordan wrote that I think very well. As a girl, it's kind of funny to watch, or to read, rather, how the opposite sex feels around someone of your gender, that finds them attractive and doesn't know what to do. And like going through that whole reading experience. Ah, so this is what these kids felt when they were like 15 or 16 trying to like talk to other girls or whatever. It's funny, kind of, when you read that.

Jess 46:40
Yeah, he - I think you're right. I think he did a really good job writing that and it's just it's so yeah, it's so just classic idiot.

So in a way it kind of gave a spoiler for a first, but it's not a spoiler. He writes it to where obviously Selene is not Selene. And the reader knows this, like, and he's brought up Lanfear before several times. It's that he's already talked about the Forsaken being loose, you've already killed to them the end of book one. I mean, that's not a surprise now. It's Lanfear, no question. Because I thought that my first read through, it obviously wasn't Selene. I'm like, this is this one Forsaken they talk about being like, really, really pretty, or whatever. Like, I didn't remember her name. Exactly. But I'm like, that's her. Like, that's what I thought it was her, so.

Yeah, I think she's been introduced. I feel like we know enough about her that it's very easy.

Jenn 47:46
I'm confident giving that away at this point. They're not gonna be like, oh, Selene did it like, because the other way, the other option for us would be Oh, my God, Don't you feel sorry for Selene? Like being out there alone with these grolm? That's so crazy, that she knows so much. Uh, you and I would have to have a whole different diatribe about her right now. And that would just be hamming it up.

Jess 48:09
Yeah, I think that there's been enough information, I think introduced about Lanfear that it's... I mean, if we figured it out, probably plenty of other people figured it out as well. And if they didn't, well, surprise, now, you know.

Jenn 48:26
Yeah. Because I my first read through I'm like, wait, wait a minute, like, yeah, it was too obvious. And I also the Jordan read that well, because I think he wanted the reader to automatically be very suspicious of this woman and may start doing some research into things that you've already learned.

Jess 48:43
Well, just the other day, like two days ago, somebody tweeted about this Selene woman being shady as fuck, and I'm like, Yeah, she is shady as fuck. She is 100% shady as fuck.

Jenn 48:58
I was doing some research on that from jumping off the bat into that because all your - Okay, so you're in book two, you've already read the eye of the Eye of the World. You're a part of the way through book two getting into this, like, you're committed. Right? Committed. So they're big ass books. And you've already read through one and you're partway through two. Come on. You're, you're at least somewhat committed. And you're like, you're in this world. You've committed to it. You're like, Okay, this is not, obviously this woman is not as you see-

Jess 49:29
She is not an actual damsel in distress.

Jenn 49:32
Yeah, no, something was going on.

Jess 49:34
Well, and I mean, Rand, and going back to Rand's sort of whole logical, you know, he pays attention to the things that are happening around him. He notes the fact that she doesn't run as soon as the grolm' attention is pulled away from her. She doesn't seem scared, she seems super calm the whole time. Even after she's been-

Jenn 49:58
She knows how to kill a grolm.

Jess 49:59
Yeah, she knows how to kill it.

Jenn 50:01
As soon as Rand comes up on her having the grolm try to attack her, she goes, shoot for the central eye, that's the only way you kill a grolm.

Jess 50:11
Yeah. And it's sort of like oh, okay?

Jenn 50:14
And then he does and then she doesn't even like step around it. She's just like, kind of looks at it, walks up to him is like, Oh, very well-shot.

Jess 50:20
Hey, what's up? You did a great job.

Jenn 50:23
Like, like that? No,

Jess 50:25
Yeah, she does not act like a person who has been traumatized by being cornered by a terrifying animal.

Jenn 50:31
You know, she's not even dirty.

Jess 50:35
Mm hmm.

Jenn 50:36
Like, like her dresses, perfectly white and like spotlit

Jess 50:39
Who th hell walks around and all white all the time. Give me a fucking break.

Jenn 50:43
A fucking break. Out in the middle of the woods. Calm your tits.

Jess 50:47
Calm your tits. What are you doing? No, no.

Jenn 50:50
Yeah, it's all fuckery. It's false news. It's false news.

Jess 50:56
False fuckery is what it is.

Jenn 50:58
So that's the end of that chapter.

Jess 51:00
So let's go on to your chapter. This is where it really starts to get lit.

Jenn 51:04
Oh, it's pretty short. And-

Jess 51:06
It's good though.

Jenn 51:07
It's iconic at the end because there's something that happens but-

Jess 51:10
Well, it's sort of the rest of the pieces here start to fall into place and like these two chapters are very good.

Jenn 51:17
Yeah, I think so. Because there's, it's it's not expositional it's like okay, this things happen you get introduced to Lanfear and then my chapter. So chapter 17, Choices. They think about running from the pack of grolm first but Selene says that once grolm have your scent they won't stop following the trail day and night until they run you down. Even though Rand needs the portal stone to get home he doesn't want to use it and wants to kill the whole pack instead. Selene's, like, making sense, like go to the portal stone. We have to go there anyway to leave this world and he's like thinking, he knows he has to eventually go there to leave because they're going to run out of food, at least-

Jess 52:02
They need to get out of there eventually.

Jenn 52:03
And he's like knowing what to kill, like, fuck you Rand. You don't even know where you're going to encounter at the other portal stones. Try to at least get to your destination, like, okay whatever. So he goes toward a low hill to set up position with his bow Hurin gets his short sword ready and the Ogier grips his quarter staff. Rand counts, he has 18 arrows with chiseled points to break through Trolloc armor. He wants to do this foolish fighting and embraces the Void, cutting out what the others are going to say. The grolm run forward in leaps and they're leathery and triple eyed, as we know. I always look at them like three eyed huge frogs in my mind, because that's how they're written. Rand kills one with the central eye shot from his bow and another of the grolm stops running to turn around and start eating his dead grolm comrade cannibal style.

Jess 52:59
Fuckin'...that's just savage.

Jenn 53:01
Rand kills one and one of the grolm turns around starts eating the one Rand freshly kills, nice.

Jess 53:06

Jenn 53:09
Of course Rand kills them all. And he's such a cool guy that doesn't need to look at explosions. He starts putting the arrows he didn't use back in the quiver, before making sure his last shot went through an eye. He knew as he loosed his last shot that it would hit true. He doesn't even need to look to make sure that it hits. Like, really? He literally doesn't even break a sweat. Rand touches his brow. It's cool. He's cool. It's badassery for the damsel in distress. That is how the Saidin do. There are more grolm that bark out and Selene is like, you can't kill them all. Which point - I mean, she has a point.

Jess 54:01
I mean, she's not wrong.

Jenn 54:03
After Rand goes like he's gonna try to kill them all, like Pokemon, gotta catch 'em all? He's gonna kill 'em all. Selene's like, you can't fucking do that, bruh, you have like, six arrows left, shut up. They have to get to the portal stone. So Selene leads them through treacherous mountain passes hounded by the grolm's calls behind them. The horses slipping and showers of stone and earth that give way underfoot and the high passes. They do, however, make it to the portal stone. And Selene says that Rand must be the one that brings them back home. She touches one symbol on the stone a little larger than the others and says that that's the one that brings them back to the real world. Like that's another reason why I said she's Lanfear, because Selene, who didn't know how she got there by taking a nap as her story was last chapter and wakes up in this world. How would she know that that particular inscription is what brings them back home?

Jess 55:02
Yeah, and like I said she is 100% just too transparent. Like she's not even doing a good job.

Jenn 55:11
No, she doesn't want to do a good job.

Jess 55:12
Honestly, it's fair. She's dealing with a bunch of idiot adolescents. She's dealing with an idiot adolescent, basically a peasant, and an Ogier who's seen basically nothing. So, I mean, I get it girl.

Jenn 55:28
She thinks, again, Selene's not sure, but she just kind of believes that Rand needs to focus on the real world while touching this one hieroglyph. And it can transport them back to where they need to be like, not only do I know this is the one heirogyphic you need to touch of all the ones that are like encased around the stone backwards and front. It's that one. And I believe you have to think about the real world order to get you there. It's fucking Lanfear, guys.

Jess 55:58
That's some really interesting info that you have there for somebody who has no idea how she got here.

Jenn 56:05
Like I cannot. We cannot even process this chapter talking about, I wonder how Selene knew that like, I can't.

Jess 56:13
I know, I mean, there's like, really, we'd just be sitting here like, wow, it's weird that she knew all those things. And that's it.

Jenn 56:19
Yeah, I'm not doing that. No. So this is kind of like the movie Speed where there's a clock ticker countdown.

Jess 56:21
Oh, I love that movie. <bad Dennis Hopper impression> You've got blinders on to the world.

Jenn 56:30

Jess 56:30
<bad Dennis Hopper impression continues> What do you do, Jack? What do you do? I fucking love that movie.

Jenn 56:39
I love that movie, too. It's like the movie Speed where there is like a clock ticker, countdown for Rand to save him. Except the sound of the grolm is moving closer. And that's the clock ticker. And Rand is slipping as he searches in his mind through the taint of the Source to find Saidin, and grapple with it as he desperately hopes to save them all. So I mean, of course, he has to get them back because you have the like whole packs of grolm, like calling or beaking or whatever, fuckin noise they make.

That's not even sound. It's not even a word. It's not even a verb!

Jess 57:10

You want to know what's really interesting. What's really interesting is I've told you about that show, Letterkenny, that I like to watch. And so there's this whole storyline in the first season where Wayne has not been fighting for the last five years because his long term girlfriend didn't like him fighting so he didn't fight. Well she cheats on him. They break up. And so now Wayne wants to be the toughest guy in Letterkenny again. And so he needs to fight all these other guys who claim to be the toughest guy Letterkenny and one of them, after it's done, they're like, What a fucking beaker. He wouldn't stop beakin'. Because like the guy was talking shit the whole time. He was a beaker.

Jenn 57:57
Oh, he was a beaker. Okay, good. I glad that that's been used some other context. So

Jess 58:02
So that's a thing at least in Ontario, Canada.

Jenn 58:05
Good. Okay, good. Okay, good.

But um like, I really actually care because I still don't want to make words up. English. Um, no, I'm glad that somebody actually did. So I mean, obviously Rand has to do it because otherwise you're gonna... the plot isn't going to progress as the Dragon Reborn gets eaten by grolm in some other world so yeah, he has to do that. So you know, as you're reading that obviously it's going to happen. So through the blink of an eye, Rand feels the world flicker. The triangle shape that he's touching on the stone, representing the real world that he's trying to channel them all, to is burning. He's screaming with pain. And here comes the montage. It's very famous. Like this is in book two and everybody still talks about this, like at the end of a Memory of Light which is the last book, book 14. Here's the flicker flicker flicker sequence. The world's are starting to merge and everything has flicker flicker flicker flicker flicker like so it's like Rand is blinking in and out of this world and traveling to a world that it's like flicker flicker flicker flicker. The way he writes it is just, it's very it's a very iconic sequence. Suddenly Rand is looking at Selene and she's giving him a confident smile. And she's like, you didn't really know what you did. But you brought us all home and even the horses. So of course Rand did it because again the plot could not be carried forward if he did not. So they're in a hollow and this stone, the portal stone in their real world, the one there they came to lays half buried in a mountainside under the loose rock of a fall. The symbols in the real world are unclear. Water and wind and time have worn away the etchings. The hollow had suspiciously smooth big boulders that were painted in different colors, like the seven colored stairs that led away from the portal stone on the other world. All the colors here were like they should be however strong and vivid. They're all happy at coming back to home. Selene says Rand's destined for great things and Rand thinks about kissing her, then asks her not to tell anyone about the stone. He also thinks of course that Perrin or Mat should be there because they know how to talk to women. Again, one of the boys thinks the other two can talk to women better than I can. It's a constant thing, guys.

Jess 1:00:47

Jenn 1:00:49
So she promises to keep his secret. Hurin needs to find the trail again. There's only an hour left till twilight however, so they have to make camp. Selene does not want to go back home to Cairhien just yet. She wants to find the Horn of Valer with these dudes. She wants to put her hands on it like she's previously stated before. And she wants the adventure, or so she says. She says Hurin cannot find the trail on this world because he was sniffing where the Darkfriends *would* be on the other world. So passing in that alternate world put them ahead of the trail of the Darkfriends They've popped out on the other side back onto their world knowing where the Darkfriends would be in perhaps days to come. So they can wait out their quarry. That's why Hurin's trail leading had been strong before but then faint. He never lost the trail, per se. He just started following a future trail of what would be in that other world versus a non existent trail that hasn't happened yet in this one.

Jess 1:02:09
Which, like, what the fuck?

Jenn 1:02:14
So by going into the alternate world that actually makes sense because they pop out back on the other side and because time flows differently in that possible alternate universe they found Selene in they came out ahead of where they know that the Darkfriends trail is going to eventually lead them, so they can plan an ambush and wait. So that's kind of what's going on, so that's why Hurin was confused, and that's why he could follow the trail in the other world but in this one he lost it. And he goes, you know, I can lead in the direction. But then Selene, because Selene - again I'm glad we brought up the fact that it was Lanfear in the previous chapter because it'd be really hard to explain how Selene knew over everyone else that we popped out ahead of them. Like, how would a Cairhienen reading books, and a library know that she popped out ahead of a dark friend trail. Cus she didn't even know they were following when she found out. Her pointing this out bothers Hurin because he doesn't like the fact that he can sniff something that hasn't happened yet. But it makes sense. And they all go to make camp. Thus endeth chapter 17: Choices.

Jess 1:03:37
So yeah.

Jenn 1:03:41
So Rand gets ahead of the Darkfriends so he can prepare for getting the Horn of Valere and the dagger back which is good. But the bad flip side of the coin is he brought Lanfear to this world. Because she may, we don't know she may have been trapped in an alternate universe after she got released from Shayol Ghul because that's where all the Forsaken were bound. It didn't didn't necessarily guarantee that Lanfear would pop back in this reality. So maybe she got released in her beautiful form that she had at the Age of Legends. But maybe she got released in a different universe, maybe the Dark On did that to her as a cruelty and Rand saved her from those grolm which actually wasn't saving her, it was a setup. And now, because of Rand, because she needed Saidin to go through the portal stone and she's not a guy so she can't channel Saidin. She needed Rand to be there to bring - so now Rand has essentially brought the second strongest Forsaken single handedly into their present world.

Jess 1:04:56
That's a really interesting theory. It hadn't occurred to me that-

Jenn 1:05:00
That Rand is responsible for bringing Lanfear back in the world.

Jess 1:05:04
I hadn't occurred to me that she didn't come out in, like, just, you know, the normal universe.

Jenn 1:05:11 didn't occur to me, because you said that they had already found that woman in white at the other villages, and they ran to it and didn't find her. So maybe she followed them from their other villages and came to that world. I don't know how she could have done it without channeling Saidin to use the portal stones,

Jess 1:05:29
Here's the other thing if you think about it. The portal stones were built in the Age of Legends where both men and women were able to freely wield the One Power. So I always was working under the assumption that it didn't matter whether you channeled Saidin or Saidar. If you were able to channel you could use a portal stone, you didn't have to have a specific one and you didn't have to have both.

Jenn 1:05:54
Oh, so I stand corrected.

Jess 1:05:56
Well, and I'm not saying that that's how it is. That's just the impression I had.

Jenn 1:06:00
That's how Jordan wrote it, canon, so what you're saying makes more sense because there was a woman in white like you said that they tried to find in the villages that that hitherto, up to this point, there was still a mystery of who was that other woman. Okay. And then if she, if Jordan wrote it to where obviously, because I remember you saying Age of egends, they still didn't know everything about the portal stones, and Loial's description was it was Aes Sedai that could use them. They didn't differentiate whether - Aes Sedai could be male or female.So maybe like you said, it could be both that makes more sense. Okay. That makes more canonical sense. And what I just suggested.

Jess 1:06:40
Because I feel like Lanfear is there, she is obviously trying to manipulate things to get Rand to embrace his destiny. And she wants to insinuate herself as a sort of trusted person. Because obviously, she's got a hard on for Lews Therin who was also the Dragon Reborn, so you know, they're sort of the same person, I guess. But, uh, yeah. I gotta sneeze.

Jenn 1:07:14
Bless you.

Jess 1:07:17
Ah, it's just sitting there. And now it's gone.

Jenn 1:07:22
Get it guuuurl.

Jess 1:07:23
I guess it's not happening.

Jenn 1:07:25
Sorry about that.

Jess 1:07:28
So, um, yeah. That's, uh, that's these chapters, I guess.

Jenn 1:07:39
They made it back to their world because of course plot, like, you have to.

Jess 1:07:44
Yeah, obviously, they can't stay there forever.

Jenn 1:07:46
They can't dick around in that world that nothing moves and whatever forever, like you have to, you have to get back to the real world. And it actually makes sense of why they were there. Because they have get ahead of the Darkfriends because obviously, the Darkfriends could slip away from them. And they needed to be able to retrieve possibly the dagger, at this point, like, the Horn of Valere is kind of necessary. Mat's dagger is gonna be necessary unless he's going to die and he's Ta'veren. And so as a reader, you're thinking going into this, they have to find it. I mean, they have to find them. I don't know how they're going to find them or how long it's going to take. But eventually, you know, in order to move the story along, they have to do this. Like it's not even a question. So, anyway.

Jess 1:08:40
Yup. That is accurate.

Jenn 1:08:44
But I think that's kind of the end of it, that there's nothing really to discuss. I mean, we can just wrap this shit up. I mean, it's a pretty short chapter. We could do Next Time on the White Tower.

Jess 1:08:54
Yeah, let's do Next Time on the White Tower. Okay, so.

Announcer (Jess's husband) 1:08:59
Next time on the White Tower Podcast...

Jess 1:09:02
Area women are on a motherfucking boat.

Jenn 1:09:06

Jess 1:09:07
Local wisdom wants to shank a bitch.

Jenn 1:09:10
Yeah, mood.

Jess 1:09:12
<singing> My kind of town, Tar Valon is.

Jenn 1:09:18
Oh, I'm excited about hearing about yours. That's a good one.

Jess 1:09:23
Thank you.

Jenn 1:09:25
My next time in the White Tower is, <singing> She's got legs, she knows how to use them.

Jess 1:09:32
I love that, it's so good.

Jenn 1:09:34
We're both singing.

Jess 1:09:35
I know! We both had musical interludes for our next time on the White Tower.

Jenn 1:09:39
Indiana Jones and the Temple of Dagger.

Jess 1:09:45

Jenn 1:09:47
I'm going to get you my pretty, and your little Horn too. Those are my next time on the White Tower.

Jess 1:09:55
Dude, bitch, that was lit.

Jenn 1:09:56
You're welcome, Rob.

Jess 1:09:56
Well done.

Jenn 1:09:59
Thank you, I like yours, too. So yeah, I guess we can wrap this shit up.

Jess 1:10:04
Yeah, we did all of our Patreon plugging earlier in the show, so we don't have to worry about that. So if for some reason you do not know where to find us on the internet, I will tell you where to find us on the internet. You can find us on social media: Facebam...facebam. Facebam?

Jenn 1:10:23
Pretty much.

Jess 1:10:23
I think I was conflating Facebook and Instagram.

Jenn 1:10:27
I think that's accurate. That's accurate.

Jess 1:10:28
Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. You can find us @whitetowerpod. Our website is You obviously can find the show on any place where you get your fine podcasts, we're on like literally every app. What else do we need to plug, I have had a moderate amount of whiskey and I have forgotten everything I know.

Jenn 1:10:52
No, that's about it.

Jess 1:10:55
We have a Discord, we have an amazing Discord. Where we talk about the Wheel of Time and many other things. We got some great people in there. So if you would like to join, if you are not an asshole, and you would like to join us, you can find us at And, going back to the huge talk we had about all of our Patreon stuff earlier in the show. If you like what we're doing, and you would like to support us, it would be amazing. And you can do that at If you are not able to do financial contributions, that's totally cool. And fuckin', we get it. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that I was broke off my ass. So like I get it, it's hard. It's really hard. So the best thing that you can do for us in any case, is rate review and subscribe to us on whatever platform you're able to do it. If it's iTunes, that's great. I think you can do it on Spotify, there are a couple of other podcast apps that you can do it on. If you're not able to do it on your podcast app, you can recommend us on Facebook and that's really helpful as well. Is there anything else that we need to communicate to our beloved audience at this time?

Jenn 1:12:12
I don't believe so. I think we covered a lot of that the beginning of the episode.

Jess 1:12:15
We covered a lot today. Um, great. So I guess that's everything that we have for you all tonight.

On behalf of - sorry, go ahead.

Jenn 1:12:27
I was gonna do what you were doing.

Jess 1:12:28
On behalf of everyone here at the White Tower, we thank you very much for listening. We love you very much, and you're doing a great job.

Jenn 1:12:39
I love you, Jess.

Jess 1:12:40
I love you, Jenn.

Both 1:12:40